tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post1784829376155102756..comments2024-03-26T04:19:38.862-07:00Comments on kitchen table math, the sequel: for all you content freaks out thereCatherine Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-40343916115946531952008-07-28T05:25:00.000-07:002008-07-28T05:25:00.000-07:00Re, Saxon:I have the same qualms as Catherine. I ...Re, Saxon:<BR/><BR/>I have the same qualms as Catherine. I do not agree with Ari that the pieces are disconnected, requiring memorization. I like the Saxon books up to algebra. The algebra sequence does jump around too much for my tastes. Why is this a problem? Because sometimes you need more time on a particular concept. With development of the quadratic formula, they happen to do it right in Saxon's Algebra 1. They have a lesson on solving quadratics by fatoring, then completing the square, and then the quadratic formula. <BR/><BR/>But sometimes you want to visit with a topic more thoroughly. Sometime you need a lot of problems on the same topic, increasing in difficulty, and that's hard to find in Saxon.<BR/><BR/>When I was tutoring my daughter in sixth grade, I knew I had to bring her up to speed on fractions. I didn't have a lot of time to spend, since her school was using EM and they were going to hit the units on multiplication and division of fractions in a matter of weeks, and I wanted to get to her first. Had I chosen Saxon, I couldn't have given her the concentrated dose she needed in the time frame I had. With Saxon, it's all or nothing. You have to stick with the program from the beginning because its incremental approach doesn't allow you to pick and choose topics.<BR/><BR/>So I went with Singapore, starting with fractions from the 4th grade, following with 5th and getting up to 6th.Barry Garelickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01281266848110087415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-33008350173038812902008-07-28T04:42:00.000-07:002008-07-28T04:42:00.000-07:00He may not say you have to understand it, but that...<I>He may not say you have to understand it, but that memory is far more efficient and reliable when you do understand it.</I><BR/><BR/>I find that when I can't understand something, memorising it by rote often helps with the understanding. Once it's all loaded into my brain, it seems to help with thinking about it.Tracy Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08999246551652981965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-63156878138991914132008-07-27T17:38:00.000-07:002008-07-27T17:38:00.000-07:00For those who are interested in playing around wit...For those who are interested in playing around with SuperMemo but are reluctant to plunk down money for it, a like-minded program exists at <A HREF="http://www.mnemosyne-proj.org/index.php" REL="nofollow">mnemosyne</A>. Same principle of spaced repetitions determined by algorithm, less complex user interface than SuperMemo. I have both, and to tell you the truth, SuperMemo is heavy on all the bells and whistles, making it somewhat intimidating and therefore difficult for noobs to enjoy its full potential.<BR/><BR/>Either way, programs like these are invaluable for learning languages and/or memorizing tons of stuff.wordsmithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13694767852556204886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-67610894375786081982008-07-27T14:01:00.000-07:002008-07-27T14:01:00.000-07:00Well, you're preaching to the choir -- I would kil...Well, you're preaching to the choir -- I would kill to have had Connecting Math Concepts in K-5 ---<BR/><BR/>I haven' read th Hu piece, so he may have talked about this, but I'd be surprised to find that Saxon drops a topic for 200 pages.<BR/><BR/>Typically, you have distributed practice on all topics in between repeated lessons.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-62284102382210135302008-07-27T13:25:00.000-07:002008-07-27T13:25:00.000-07:00Hung Hsi Wu wrote: "There is no rhyme or reason ab...Hung Hsi Wu wrote: "There is no rhyme or reason about the sequencing of the topics. For example, the things are really broken up. The report gives the examples. One of the grade levels, grade four or grade five, has exactly two sections on probability (that's right two sections). They belong together and without a doubt there is no increase in sophistication or techniques, and yet I think they are separated by 200 pages. When I do this I want to emphasize that I do not single out one or two examples. I am trying to describe through one or two examples the overall the overriding impression that I have."<BR/><BR/>Contrast with Connecting Math Concepts (SRA/DI), where mastery of a topic is required before a new topic is taught and shows how concepts are linked together. <BR/><BR/><BR/>ari-freeAri-freehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00846863080189545029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-32484026571623614852008-07-27T11:04:00.000-07:002008-07-27T11:04:00.000-07:00I desperately need a program like this to finally ...I desperately need a program like this to finally learn the various terms for brain regions.<BR/><BR/>This week, AGAIN, I was trying to figure out vetral striatum versus dorsal striatum....Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-47677434884235765022008-07-27T11:03:00.000-07:002008-07-27T11:03:00.000-07:00I'm getting this program -- haven't figured out ye...I'm getting this program -- haven't figured out yet how to do it (online version or Windows).<BR/><BR/>Apparently the guy who invented it is a total eccentric (I suspect Asperger's) so things like developing the product to make it user-friendly aren't a priority.<BR/><BR/>Scratch that: things like developing the product and making it user friendly aren't even on the To Do list.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-61659773041824491462008-07-27T11:02:00.000-07:002008-07-27T11:02:00.000-07:00I'll split the difference on Saxon!Obviously, ...I'll split the difference on Saxon!<BR/><BR/>Obviously, I'm a huge fan; I taught C. all of Saxon 6/5, and I've worked through 6/5, Algebra 1, and almost all of Algebra 2.<BR/><BR/>But the jumping around often bothers me...I'll open up Dolciani & see coherent, developed chapter covering ONE SUBJECT and think: <I>great</I>.<BR/><BR/>Saxon definitely teaches the concepts, not just procedures.<BR/><BR/>ALEKS uses the lesson approach, btw. <BR/><BR/>Talk about jumping around ---Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-42942461659222676002008-07-27T10:59:00.000-07:002008-07-27T10:59:00.000-07:00We can't just assume that students will figure out...<I>We can't just assume that students will figure out history just by memorizing every letter</I><BR/><BR/>Right -- he's got one page, in particular, where he explains the fundamental laws of memory; I think his first law is that you have to understand the material you're trying to memorize.<BR/><BR/>He may not say you <I>have</I> to understand it, but that memory is far more efficient and reliable when you do understand it. Willingham says the same thing, iirc. <BR/><BR/>I assume this is one of the pragmatic reasons why constructivists focus so intensely on meaning -- from one angle of vision constructivism is arguably about getting (some) material into long-term memory in the easiest way possible (I approve of that goal - !)<BR/><BR/>For quite a while I've had the perception that constructivists tend to assume, consciously or not, that if you understand something you also know it --- and can retrieve it.<BR/><BR/>It may be the case that in order to understand something you have to know it, but that has practically no bearing on whether you're going to be able to retrieve it when you need it.<BR/><BR/>Retrieval/recall are the hard part.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-27996954296532783602008-07-27T06:15:00.000-07:002008-07-27T06:15:00.000-07:00What tex and Barry said.I after-schooled using Sax...What tex and Barry said.<BR/><BR/>I after-schooled using Saxon for 2 years and found it far more thoughtful than it appears at first sight. <BR/><BR/>I do remember years earlier looking at it and thinking that it was just too simplistic. When I actually used it and had my son do all of the various exercises, I was surprised at how it all tied together.<BR/><BR/>SusanSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-35409231823565535412008-07-27T05:54:00.000-07:002008-07-27T05:54:00.000-07:00Boy, I’ll second what Barry wrote about Saxon.I af...Boy, I’ll second what Barry wrote about Saxon.<BR/><BR/>I after-schooled my daughter with Saxon a few years ago, and I found it to be organized in a logically hierarchal format that incorporated the right kind of spiraling that aims for mastery.Texhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12015376722906862434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-35690694757079834112008-07-27T05:05:00.000-07:002008-07-27T05:05:00.000-07:00I also do not like how Saxon treats math as many d...<I>I also do not like how Saxon treats math as many disconnected, individual pieces of data that need to be memorized.</I><BR/><BR/>Saxon is not constructed that way. The lessons are constantly integrated and repeated throughout the book, and increase in complexity, building upon mastered concepts and skills.Barry Garelickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01281266848110087415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-28155150334507370072008-07-26T22:46:00.000-07:002008-07-26T22:46:00.000-07:00"The human brain is a marvel of associative proces..."The human brain is a marvel of associative processing, but in order to make associations, data must be loaded into memory."<BR/><BR/><BR/>but proper associations must also be taught explicitly in order to load data into memory. We can't just assume that students will figure out history just by memorizing every letter, comma and period of the Gettysburg Address or other historical documents. I also do not like how Saxon treats math as many disconnected, individual pieces of data that need to be memorized.<BR/><BR/>ari-freeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com