tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post1854407735152617000..comments2024-03-26T04:19:38.862-07:00Comments on kitchen table math, the sequel: From 1992 - David Klein and Jerry Rosen on fuzzy math and why we have itCatherine Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-27137662382568330152014-03-27T00:48:58.355-07:002014-03-27T00:48:58.355-07:00Really informative article. Read this recently: Th...Really informative article. Read this recently: The next trend in retail: Digital disruption, thought I’d share it. Check it here: http://goo.gl/zsw5tP <br /><br />Storewars Newshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14158088500801666670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-2030909793597019262014-03-26T21:38:15.311-07:002014-03-26T21:38:15.311-07:00Like Froggiemama, I have not observed students who...Like Froggiemama, I have not observed students who write poorly but come across as sharp when speaking. It may be because we are both dealing with highly technical subjects where attention to detail is essential. Students who are vague and disorganized in their writing are also vague and disorganized in their verbal presentations. It is a lot harder to BS your way through a technical discussion than a current events discussion.<br /><br />I've seen very high correlation between technical skills (programming and problem solving) and writing skills—except for one big problem: writers' block. I know several highly competent (even brilliant) people who failed to get their PhDs because they could not write their thesis, even though they had done all the research, and were capable of writing well when the stakes were lower.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-54684596984393358202014-03-26T14:50:47.589-07:002014-03-26T14:50:47.589-07:00I think Catherine is right about the difference be...I think Catherine is right about the difference between fluent, intelligent speech and being able to read or write.<br /><br />A mentor warned my husband was warned about this phenomenon when he was a graduate student TA-ing at a college with weak undergraduates. The mentor said that while the students could be very strong in classroom discussion, they couldn't understand the class reading and they couldn't write well. That was 15+ years ago. <br /><br />This really is a thing. AmyPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-49319817296610742722014-03-26T11:19:06.170-07:002014-03-26T11:19:06.170-07:00"Schools refuse to see that their failure to ..."Schools refuse to see that their failure to group by instructional need/level, by subject, disproportionately hurts those who depend on schools for all of their academic knowledge and skills."<br /><br />Yes. We parents have gotten numerous notes telling us to practice math facts at home. It's amazing that the implication of this doesn't sink in to them.<br /><br />Barry and I talk about this hidden tracking in schools. Many educators assume that if they don't track, then all kids have equal opportunity and help. I think that's where many IQ arguments come from. If my son was an average student, my help at home would have made an even bigger difference. An older teacher once told me that it's the middle students who get hurt the most. Bright students in my son's fifth grade still had not mastered the times table. That was shocking to some, but if it happens in an urban school, well, maybe there's something else going on. Never mind that the failure was clearly shown for the school in the affluent area.<br />SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-15000743880897817902014-03-25T21:40:35.393-07:002014-03-25T21:40:35.393-07:00"Mr. Escalante proved beyond any doubt that m..."Mr. Escalante proved beyond any doubt that minority students from poor neighborhoods can do as well in mathematics as any other group."<br /><br />to dance close to the third rail,<br /><br />But he didn't show that the amount of time and effort needed for them to do well was the same as for any other group. and that is what schools do when they mix-group -- everyone has the same amount of time. and iy isn't enough.Allisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01760659382790453648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-78336768366127765542014-03-25T21:26:26.647-07:002014-03-25T21:26:26.647-07:00But knowing how to see a flaw is different than su...But knowing how to see a flaw is different than successfully constructing an argument.<br /><br />We blog commenters have mastered tis fact!<br /><br />Seeing a hole in an argument doesn't mean you can think through a thesis topic succinctly, nor cite supporting evidence.<br /><br />To the bigger point, it is not that schools refuse to see how they are hurting kids, it is that individuals in those schools have weighed that against the cost of being called racist or classist and decided not to bother.<br /><br />I think educators long ago believed they could level the playing field by moving away from the quantitative skills and analytic needs of math and sci courses, yes. Same reason they make movies, songs and dioramas instead of book reports, too.Allisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01760659382790453648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-57784288419912477052014-03-25T17:06:45.843-07:002014-03-25T17:06:45.843-07:00I didn't know what to make of the student in t...I didn't know what to make of the student in the neighboring district. He was hammering the other students' report, and every point he made was right.<br /><br />He wasn't just making one point, either; he was following up on the points.<br /><br />During that particular class, he was the most articulate student.<br /><br />And, as I recall, one or two of the students giving the report were AP students.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-80456108863930272872014-03-25T17:05:16.326-07:002014-03-25T17:05:16.326-07:00I'm teaching a remedial freshman composition c...I'm teaching a remedial freshman composition class...<br /><br />That may be different from your situation. <br /><br />In any case, there is no question that people can be good talkers and poor writers. <br /><br />Writing isn't talking.<br /><br />Not even close.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-89572994482868938532014-03-25T15:06:12.443-07:002014-03-25T15:06:12.443-07:00If schools are not explicitly teaching and requiri...If schools are not explicitly teaching and requiring mastery of the appropriate grade-level content, across all subjects, before advancement, most of the kids who will be ready for real HS college-prep work (let alone honors or AP) will be those at the top end of the ability curve, who are also the most likely to be the most advantaged and the most likely to have received significant instruction outside of school (parents, online, CC, Kumon etc) - cue Steve H on that. <br /><br />Schools refuse to see that their failure to group by instructional need/level, by subject, disproportionately hurts those who depend on schools for all of their academic knowledge and skills. Advantaged kids have parents who know what kids should be learning and who will supplement as necessary; math facts, std algorithms, vocab, good lit and non-fiction, composition, grammar, history, art/music history, science - all those things schools now expect kids to "discover" - which they don't. They arrive in 7th-9th behind the 8-ball and likely to stay there.momof4noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-80606291572594445202014-03-25T12:41:15.197-07:002014-03-25T12:41:15.197-07:00"college freshmen whose skills are far below ..."college freshmen whose skills are far below where they need to be can be perfectly intelligent and 'smart' when you stick to spoken language."<br /><br />Really? I don't see that at all with my college kids. I also get a lot of very underprepared kids, and I find almost universally that the ones who speak well are the ones who write well and who are good at the computer science assignments I give them. The ones who have trouble are also extremely inarticulate. I suspect that the problem is that they don't have enough vocabulary to read their textbook or to follow the discussion in class. They also exhibit very imprecise thinking habits, which is a big problem when you are trying to write programs. No, I do not see students who are bad at writing but good speakers, not at all.Froggiemamanoreply@blogger.com