tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post2181597492139838565..comments2024-03-26T04:19:38.862-07:00Comments on kitchen table math, the sequel: Kai on teachers writing curriculumCatherine Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-48472390085005995692015-01-21T06:02:49.629-08:002015-01-21T06:02:49.629-08:00One reason for schools to insist that teachers fol...One reason for schools to insist that teachers follow a (hopefully good) textbook is that it protects students from bad teaching. Meaning that if they don't get it in class, they have another chance to get it from the book. There are lots of reasons kids might not get it in class besides bad teaching too, all of them legitimate reasons to follow a good textbook.<br /><br />That said, most high school textbooks contain more information than can be reasonably covered in a year. This is intentional--they expect teachers to choose which chapters are appropriate for their particular class. Frequently you'll see in math textbooks a few "throwaway" chapters at the end--topics that are nice to have but not necessary to move to the next level. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-29934589038604622782015-01-21T05:48:11.815-08:002015-01-21T05:48:11.815-08:00My son's honors geometry teacher is not using ...My son's honors geometry teacher is not using a textbook. But he is doing a good job. The course is very rigorous, much different from the 9th grade geometry I remember from the old days. My husband, who is a PhD quant, says he is amazed they are getting 9th graders through this.<br /><br />In my college courses, I increasingly do not use a textbook because the students won't buy them anyway, and there are rarely books that correspond closely to what I need to teach. We do use a textbook for CS1/CS2, which is a fairly standardized course, but as I said, only a minority of students buy it. froggiemamanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-52305897167891901792015-01-21T04:36:25.866-08:002015-01-21T04:36:25.866-08:00"I described very clearly what I meant by tha..."I described very clearly what I meant by that sentence in the paragraphs before."<br /><br />I didn't ask what you meant. I asked for data on your claim.<br /><br />"I imagine .."<br /><br />I see. "... a small fraction..." means 0 to 80 percent, and it's based on your imagination.<br /><br /><br />".. the idea that a textbook is some sort of sacrosanct curriculum makes no sense."<br /><br />This is a straw man.<br /><br /><br />".. their hatred is orthogonal to whether or not it's effective."<br /><br />Always? Catherine was talking about "it", a specific case.<br /><br />SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-85640209163897825392015-01-20T22:43:23.890-08:002015-01-20T22:43:23.890-08:00I described very clearly what I meant by that sent...I described very clearly what I meant by that sentence in the paragraphs before.<br /><br />Logically, the idea that a textbook is some sort of sacrosanct curriculum makes no sense. And the minute teachers go off book, they are building their own curriculum. So the only real question is to what degree teachers use textbooks. I imagine the numbers go from 0 to 70 or 80%.<br /><br /><br />"Students hated it."<br /><br /> Students hate all sorts of things; their hatred is orthogonal to whether or not it's effective. Besides, I'm talking K-12. College students are obsessed about grades; college profs about their ratings. Not the same animal.Education Realisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17292589550049244821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-64022289834911465572015-01-20T18:30:50.104-08:002015-01-20T18:30:50.104-08:00"There is just no earthly way you're ever..."There is just no earthly way you're ever going to get more than a small fraction of high school teachers to actually use textbooks."<br /><br />Do you have any data on this?<br /><br />My son's math teachers (7th grade onwards) all used textbooks and followed them closely. His K-6 teachers followed Everyday Math workbooks closely.<br />SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-38650993351773479752015-01-20T17:26:04.454-08:002015-01-20T17:26:04.454-08:00In high school, the quality of the teachers is som...In high school, the quality of the teachers is sometimes iffy. And you might miss a week of school with the flu. A textbook, even if the teacher doesn't rely on it for explanations, at least gives the student an independent platform for scoping out the material. Plus, it's a lot easier to manage than a blizzard of handouts and in-class notes. I still treasure a few of my HS textbooks, especially math and science. Hegner & Stiles, anyone?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-25039374313319265562015-01-20T14:02:21.707-08:002015-01-20T14:02:21.707-08:00Ed has tried teaching history without a textbook (...Ed has tried teaching history without a textbook (to undergraduates).<br /><br />Students hated it.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-72311192554820363122015-01-20T10:47:17.954-08:002015-01-20T10:47:17.954-08:00All teachers develop their own curriculum, particu...All teachers develop their own curriculum, particularly in math, particularly in high school. Even the ones that say they don't, do. <br /><br />The minute you skip a chapter in a book, or a section of a book, or skip a bunch of questions, you're moving from the intended curriculum to the teacher's designed curriculum. Teachers skip chapters all the time.<br /><br />Then there are teachers who basically ignore the book (raises hand). One thing mathematicians and math teachers agree on--math text books aren't much use. The only real difference is whether the teachers *want* a book or not.<br /><br />There is just no earthly way you're ever going to get more than a small fraction of high school teachers to actually use textbooks.educationrealisthttps://educationrealist.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-43694015600184709302015-01-19T20:01:59.712-08:002015-01-19T20:01:59.712-08:00A curriculum (usually) means a sequence of courses...A curriculum (usually) means a sequence of courses that lead to a desired coverage of content and skills. I've put together a number of college courses in math and computer science. It's not bad if you can find a decent textbook. I've done some classes where I've added a lot of my own new material, but never one where I created everything from scratch. Our math department did, however, lay out the number and sequence of classes required for various degree programs. These generally evolved over time so that nobody ever created a curriculum ab inito.<br /><br />For K-12 math, much of the curriculum is already mapped, backwards, from calculus. Schools can select the traditional calculus, pre-calc, algebra II, geometry, algebra I and pre-algebra, or buy into some sort of existing "integrated" math package (curriculum). <br /><br />When you get into K-6, schools usually buy into some existing package like Everyday Math. However, many do seem to claim the vanity of creating their own math curriculum ... or at least it's a claim just to keep parents off their back. I can't imagine that uncertified (in math) K-6 teachers would have the temerity to even attempt to create math content let alone a curriculum.<br /><br />SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.com