tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post3171306804837722689..comments2024-03-26T04:19:38.862-07:00Comments on kitchen table math, the sequel: stop the madnessCatherine Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-85393209398165374342007-11-01T13:42:00.000-07:002007-11-01T13:42:00.000-07:00Oops-- I think you probably had a lot to do with i...Oops--<BR/><BR/> I think you probably had a lot to do with it.<BR/><BR/>By "it" I mean C's ability to write a mostly grammatical sentence.LSquared32https://www.blogger.com/profile/00858524638866166691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-55628999410972416642007-11-01T13:31:00.000-07:002007-11-01T13:31:00.000-07:00I think you probably had a lot to do with it. Not...I think you probably had a lot to do with it. Not direct teaching, but because you are a careful user of language, and C has grown up listening to grammatical sentences being spoken, and so they sound natural to him. I'm pretty sure that's why I can write grammatically.LSquared32https://www.blogger.com/profile/00858524638866166691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-40732326127475132462007-09-16T12:29:00.000-07:002007-09-16T12:29:00.000-07:00Haha, the part of Mockingbird that spoke to me was...Haha, the part of Mockingbird that spoke to me was the individualism. Also, Scout was a tomboyish girl (especially difficult in that era) and she echoed a lot of the struggles I had with my teachers at the time, so it was like major empathy for me. Except I wasn't a girl. But I had a crush on a tomboy at school. Kindred spirit, you know.<BR/><BR/>"<BR/>Admittedly, I have heard complaints about how AP courses rush to squeeze a lot of content into a short time period. But, facts are important, too. They have to be taught sometime, right?"<BR/><BR/>It's the teacher, I think.<BR/><BR/>Right now I'm struggling (e.g. being bored) with writing about the six themes of history, which are quite overgeneralised, if not a tautology.<BR/><BR/>"How does the theme of Encounters assist you in understanding the effects of the interactions of people across culture and time?"<BR/><BR/>I struggled to write an original essay without sounding cheesy or redundant. <BR/><BR/>I'm a person who appreciates and loves every chance for multiculturalism (given my cross-migrant backgrounds). <BR/><BR/>My genuine reaction was like, "well, it's kind to hard to be assisted when you haven't even been given any facts yet!"le radical galoisienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14684821442296479803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-20059599887998787842007-09-16T10:38:00.000-07:002007-09-16T10:38:00.000-07:00When I read that post at Joanne Jacob's, I had to ...<I>When I read that post at Joanne Jacob's, I had to wonder how many students who can't write a coherent paragraph and don't know any grammar actually have the reading skills (or motivation) to be reading any of the literature the teacher cited?</I><BR/><BR/>You know....I mainly felt relief that this teacher has left the profession.<BR/><BR/>That was my dominant emotion.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-66528824533435644822007-09-16T10:37:00.000-07:002007-09-16T10:37:00.000-07:00"Their homework this weekend is to 'reflect and sh...<I>"Their homework this weekend is to 'reflect and share' about genocide."</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>aaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuggggghhhhhh<BR/><BR/>(Haven't read the thread - had just checked in - saw this - must go lie down with a cold cloth pressed to my forehead ------ )<BR/><BR/>I will return when I've recovered fully.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-43158283565932229392007-09-14T19:01:00.000-07:002007-09-14T19:01:00.000-07:00Thank you Susan. It all wouldn't bother me so much...Thank you Susan. It all wouldn't bother me so much if there were choice. Although I have my own opinion on education, I would be the last one to force them on others.SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-26620789607394977342007-09-14T14:05:00.000-07:002007-09-14T14:05:00.000-07:00Hey Steve,Off topic, I enjoyed your comments over ...Hey Steve,<BR/><BR/>Off topic, I enjoyed your comments over at math notations. I would have jumped in but as usual you were handling it all just fine.<BR/><BR/>I still might, though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-71823501368602577262007-09-14T12:46:00.000-07:002007-09-14T12:46:00.000-07:00"Just to annoy the teacher."I thought of just the ..."Just to annoy the teacher."<BR/><BR/>I thought of just the same thing. Look up Iroquois torture justified on cultural grounds. Killing by European white settlers = atrocity. Torture and killing by Native Americans = spiritual.SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-36677935238942586782007-09-14T12:09:00.000-07:002007-09-14T12:09:00.000-07:00"Their homework this weekend is to 'reflect and sh..."<I>Their homework this weekend is to 'reflect and share' about genocide.</I>"<BR/><BR/>I'd like to go on record as being opposed to genocide.<BR/><BR/>If I was in high school and this was my assignment, I'd probably spend the weekend coming up with a good case in favor of genocide. Just to annoy the teacher.<BR/><BR/>-Mark RouloAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-59698448132603298382007-09-14T08:10:00.000-07:002007-09-14T08:10:00.000-07:00Another great spelling program is "Sequential Spel...Another great spelling program is "Sequential Spelling". This program is a favorite among homeschoolers. It is also cheap and takes less than 10 minutes per day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-30706655976854855072007-09-14T06:47:00.000-07:002007-09-14T06:47:00.000-07:00Speaking of teachers who seem to think they are th...Speaking of teachers who seem to think they are the arbiters of education. This was posted on MathNotations (see the link that vlorbik gave in an earlier thread) in response to my comments about Prof. Lynn Arthur Steen discussion of education.<BR/><BR/>"As for the issue of mastery, it is my goal for my students can achieve mastery of concepts. But what if, for whatever reason, they can't? Should they spend the rest of their time limited to arithmetic? Never get to study algebra or geometry or stats?"<BR/><BR/><BR/>"My goal."<BR/><BR/>"My students."<BR/><BR/>Bad education.SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-82987100462911396832007-09-14T06:41:00.000-07:002007-09-14T06:41:00.000-07:00"... the teacher expressed her disdain about all t..."... the teacher expressed her disdain about all the “facts” that must be learned for the test."<BR/><BR/>"Reflecting" and "sharing" would be more useful if they are based on facts. If she doesn't like facts, then what is she doing teaching history? <BR/><BR/>I hate David McCullough's books because he doesn't give me the facts. He paints an historical picture that may be very interesting, but it is his own biased picture. He doesn't give me the facts to paint my own picture.<BR/><BR/>"Their homework this weekend is to “reflect and share” about genocide."<BR/><BR/>Based on what information? Did she give specific examples that they had to research? Did she ask them to compare them to see if they are the same or different? Are the motivating factors the same? Did she give them the understanding to evaluate the cases in the context of their times, or just according to our 21st century sensibilities?<BR/><BR/><BR/>This is just another teacher pushing her opinion. At least there is some outside force that is beyond her control. That is the benefit of AP courses. ... unless she doesn't do her job.<BR/><BR/>Why do individual teachers feel that they are the sole arbiters of education?SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-84235773369000811462007-09-14T06:24:00.000-07:002007-09-14T06:24:00.000-07:00By the time you're old enough to read To Kill a Mo...By the time you're old enough to read To Kill a Mockingbird, you should be able to construct a coherent sentence and know some grammar. <BR/><BR/>And why can't they do both? Well, I know. Because these kinds of teachers don't know grammar themselves and they're self-conscious about it. <BR/><BR/>They not only seem to lack the insight to recognize their own shortcomings, but also seem quite happy to hoist their bad ideas right on to other people's children. I have seen this over and over again the last few years. <BR/><BR/>This is when you really have to Save Your Own if no one will listen. Grammar isn't hard to teach, but it is nuanced and takes time to soak in. The smartest thing I ever did was to start them in 2nd and 3rd grade with basic parts of speech. 15 minutes of good ole' direct instruction a few times a week for years can make a huge difference. <BR/><BR/>The question is why haven't they done it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-8356151884197118332007-09-14T05:56:00.000-07:002007-09-14T05:56:00.000-07:00This post makes me think about the AP World Histor...This post makes me think about the AP World History course my son is taking. He’s been coming home with comments about how the teacher expressed her disdain about all the “facts” that must be learned for the test. It seems she wants to spend more time reflecting and sharing about “issues”. Their homework this weekend is to “reflect and share” about genocide.<BR/><BR/>I probably should start asking some questions.<BR/><BR/>Admittedly, I have heard complaints about how AP courses rush to squeeze a lot of content into a short time period. But, facts are important, too. They have to be taught sometime, right?Texhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12015376722906862434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-31807809150315172382007-09-14T05:49:00.000-07:002007-09-14T05:49:00.000-07:00“I’m more concerned about them being able to put t...“I’m more concerned about them being able to put themselves in someone else’s shoes — ..."<BR/><BR/>"more concerned" I read this as devaluing other parts of education for what that teacher thinks is best. They do this in math when they talk about conceptual understanding. (i.e. rather than mastery of skills) Teachers feel that they should get to decide. I don't think they even like the idea that the school (their employer) should give them a curriculum to follow. They may be very sincere about their beliefs, but they show little understanding of opinion, assumptions, and expectations.SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-6949460263216957382007-09-14T05:46:00.000-07:002007-09-14T05:46:00.000-07:00although I'm going to go with "angry disabled chil...although I'm going to go with "angry disabled child and clueless dad" for first prizeCatherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-72500661158669450932007-09-14T05:45:00.000-07:002007-09-14T05:45:00.000-07:00It’s a little like saying “The Great Gatsby” is al...<I>It’s a little like saying “The Great Gatsby” is all about the power of true love.</I><BR/><BR/>lollllllllCatherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-31164742246760217662007-09-14T05:44:00.001-07:002007-09-14T05:44:00.001-07:00I would disagree that the essence of “To Kill A Mo...<I>I would disagree that the essence of “To Kill A Mockingbird” is standing in someone else’s shoes. What about the difficult question of championing basic human rights to an extreme which may result in ostracization from the community and putting one’s family at risk, among other issues?</I><BR/><BR/>No kidding.<BR/><BR/>I read To Kill a Mockingbird 3 times when I was young....<BR/><BR/>oh forget itCatherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-39328040006378133452007-09-14T05:44:00.000-07:002007-09-14T05:44:00.000-07:00Karen’s comments about “Mockingbird” are quite int...Karen’s comments about “Mockingbird” are quite intriguing. Now, I want to read it again.Texhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12015376722906862434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-73158241324789068362007-09-14T05:42:00.000-07:002007-09-14T05:42:00.000-07:00redkuduTHANK YOUThis is a battle Ed and I began tw...<B>redkudu</B><BR/><BR/>THANK YOU<BR/><BR/>This is a battle Ed and I began two years ago.<BR/><BR/>THIS IS NOT PROPER INSTRUCTION IN LITERATURE.<BR/><BR/>PERIOD.<BR/><BR/>Character education was being "implemented" in our middle school when we first got there, and the good news was that it was going to be "integrated" into everything else.<BR/><BR/>(Now writing is going to be integrated into everything else. Yes, my kid, who can't do percents, is going to be writing in math class.)<BR/><BR/>Here was the example the principal gave:<BR/><BR/>The Miracle Worker is a play about an angry disabled child and a clueless dad.<BR/><BR/>That was supposed to be the approach to The Miracle Worker, as dictated by the doctrines of character ed.<BR/><BR/>That's not character education and it's not literary analysis, either.<BR/><BR/>It's bunk.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-30721280948667628782007-09-14T05:39:00.000-07:002007-09-14T05:39:00.000-07:00OK, I got off topic.I would definitely start teach...OK, I got off topic.<BR/><BR/>I would definitely start teaching spelling informally now, and systematically, with Megawords, starting in 4th grade.<BR/><BR/>The other two spelling curricula I'm familiar with are Engelmann's text & Louisa Moats' books, but both are hideously expensive. I don't believe either one is sold to parents.<BR/><BR/>The Megawords books cost:<BR/><BR/>$10.90 student book<BR/>$7.75 teacher's guide<BR/><BR/>8 books in the series.<BR/><BR/>You could probably make do without the teacher's manual, but I found it extremely convenient to have one. <BR/><BR/>The authors are SPED teachers working with LD kids.<BR/><BR/>I keep forgetting to mention that Megawords also serves as a vocabulary and, to some degree, reading text.<BR/><BR/>They give you standards for how rapidly your child should be able to read the word lists out loud.<BR/><BR/>I haven't mentioned those, because I'd forgotten about them. When I first got the books I gave C. a Megawords reading test & he was quite a bit faster than the standard the book suggested, so I dropped that part of the program.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-42610600705549426012007-09-14T05:34:00.000-07:002007-09-14T05:34:00.000-07:00I would get going on spelling instruction now. My ...I would get going on spelling instruction now. My school simply didn't do it (obviously). <BR/><BR/>A couple of years ago they adopted a spelling curriculum for K-5. I think it's Houghton Mifflin. I have no idea whether it's good; I assume it is.<BR/><BR/>But it came too late for Christopher, and the school doesn't care.<BR/><BR/>We didn't teach your kid how to spell?<BR/><BR/>No problem; we'll teach the next kids coming up through the system.<BR/><BR/>As far as I'm concerned, if a school doesn't have a spelling curriculum, and then later on DOES have a spelling curriculum, that is an admission that the school has not been teaching spelling -- and should now remediate the kids who went without.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-46952615703241199792007-09-14T05:32:00.000-07:002007-09-14T05:32:00.000-07:00PaulaThe ITBS is a good test....although we do nee...<B>Paula</B><BR/><BR/>The ITBS is a good test....although we do need to know how bad spelling is in kids across the country to interpret current scores.<BR/><BR/>Since I gave Chris the ITBS myself, and read and scored all of his answers informally (before sending them back to the company to be scored), I saw how good his grammar and usage are.<BR/><BR/>The other thing I realized was that when we help him with his writing, we take grammar and usage for granted.<BR/><BR/>I don't want to overstate; he still makes "kid errors." He needs more copy editing & correction than a proficient adult would need.<BR/><BR/>It's possible he shouldn't need that by now; I really don't know.<BR/><BR/>But his progress looks good to me.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-63007467952256370972007-09-14T05:28:00.000-07:002007-09-14T05:28:00.000-07:00A few years ago, teachers were recruited from Spai...<I>A few years ago, teachers were recruited from Spain--to fill a shortage--no English skills were needed.</I>.<BR/><BR/>ahhh<BR/><BR/>A very large part of me thinks I should READ NO FURTHER.<BR/><BR/>If I start really digging into NYC schools & the Bloomberg/Klein folderol, it won't be pretty.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-5095468285405292632007-09-14T04:29:00.000-07:002007-09-14T04:29:00.000-07:00When I read that post at Joanne Jacob's, I had to ...When I read that post at Joanne Jacob's, I had to wonder how many students who can't write a coherent paragraph and don't know any grammar actually have the reading skills (or motivation) to be reading any of the literature the teacher cited? Appreciating great literature is tough for the illiterate. Analysis of literature is a worthwhile goal, but the ability to write coherently is a necessary skill for almost any professional career and a great many other jobs as well. One does not rise far beyond burger flipping without grammar skills.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com