tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post3690284113823159795..comments2024-03-26T04:19:38.862-07:00Comments on kitchen table math, the sequel: handwriting and grades and the wisdom of the crowdCatherine Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-72574467756153049112012-10-10T12:57:35.504-07:002012-10-10T12:57:35.504-07:00Auntie Ann - I like long sentences & short par...Auntie Ann - I like long sentences & short paragraphs!Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-55228609699196827052012-10-10T12:56:55.724-07:002012-10-10T12:56:55.724-07:00I can try writing exemplars myself, but the one I ...I can try writing exemplars myself, but the one I wrote so far was way too sophisticated & doesn't work as an exemplar of good FRESHMAN work.<br /><br />It's neither easy nor simple to imitate a good 5-paragraph essay written by an 18-year old.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-37859221644736925532012-10-10T12:55:32.816-07:002012-10-10T12:55:32.816-07:00As for sharing out papers...you'd need to get ...<i>As for sharing out papers...you'd need to get "exemplar" papers, almost certainly from graduated students who sign over the right to use their work (most likely with names redacted)</i><br /><br />Absolutely - that would work.<br /><br />I am in chronic need of exemplars; I have, at this point, exactly one to my name.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-37806476416072504102012-10-10T12:54:52.900-07:002012-10-10T12:54:52.900-07:00Personally I think it would be a massive boon for ...<i>Personally I think it would be a massive boon for students (and teachers) to have "crowd-sourcing" of the grading process for papers.</i><br /><br />I'm so happy to hear you say that!<br /><br />I'm really just thinking out loud, but the problem of teacher subjectivity - or maybe just teacher 'individuality'? - is real, and I don't see a way around it.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-53979898862871424362012-10-10T12:53:28.724-07:002012-10-10T12:53:28.724-07:00I always found that grading the first few papers i...<i>I always found that grading the first few papers in a batch took forever...and that I then would begin to accelerate.</i><br /><br />I've had that experience .... Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-28226147872561178712012-10-10T12:52:43.332-07:002012-10-10T12:52:43.332-07:00Even that may be a step too far...
You think so?<i>Even that may be a step too far...</i><br /><br />You think so?Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-2051408153544832972012-10-10T10:50:48.805-07:002012-10-10T10:50:48.805-07:00Perhaps some level of computer grading would help....Perhaps some level of computer grading would help...at least to get in the ball park, and to examine grammar and spelling. <br /><br />But I love this article on computer essay grading:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/23/education/robo-readers-used-to-grade-test-essays.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0" rel="nofollow">NYTimes</a><br /><br />>> The e-Rater’s biggest problem, he says, is that it can’t identify truth. He tells students not to waste time worrying about whether their facts are accurate, since pretty much any fact will do as long as it is incorporated into a well-structured sentence. “E-Rater doesn’t care if you say the War of 1812 started in 1945,” he said. <<<br /><br />>> “Once you understand e-Rater’s biases,” he said, “it’s not hard to raise your test score.”<br /><br />E-Rater, he said, does not like short sentences.<br /><br />Or short paragraphs.<br /><br />Or sentences that begin with “or.” And sentences that start with “and.” Nor sentence fragments. <<Auntie Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777983027361603449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-37415227877388945982012-10-10T06:22:24.164-07:002012-10-10T06:22:24.164-07:00I always found that grading the first few papers i...I always found that grading the first few papers in a batch took forever...and that I then would begin to accelerate. Having read a few set some parameters. <br /><br />Finally, I started quickly skimming papers first and separating them into piles. Three piles is pretty easy -- <br /><br />good to great, understandable, made a point<br /><br />I get what you're saying, but had to work at it, your point is a little obscure or not quite supported by your evidence, or the manner in which you convey your point is unclear, wanders, switches at times<br /><br />The "what?!" papers -- it just doesn't hold together. There are two different things going on, you contradict yourself, you never get around to having a point.<br /><br />Once you've got a preliminary sort, it's much easier to see differences within each group too (and yes, sometimes a paper looks different when read more closely and might move to a different pile). First pile is As and Bs, second pile Bs and Cs and third pile Cs, Ds, and Fs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-29683514971827366622012-10-10T04:20:04.818-07:002012-10-10T04:20:04.818-07:00"I assume teachers are going to agree on gram...<i>"I assume teachers are going to agree on grammar, punctuation, and spelling far more often more than they disagree."</i><br /><br />Even that may be a step too far...<br /><br />Personally I think it would be a massive boon for students (and teachers) to have "crowd-sourcing" of the grading process for papers. Have papers be read by a group of people who give a first-impression grade and average the student grade from that. It'll never happen for a whole host of reasons, but it'd be a great thing if it did. <br /><br />Sadly, though, even a system like that wouldn't be able to get past individual biases for things like grammar, spelling, and so on. But with a wider array of inputs, you might be able to get a more reasonable sense of how a student is doing, never mind the wealth of information that would be shared across teachers about individual students. <br /><br />As for sharing out papers...you'd need to get "exemplar" papers, almost certainly from graduated students who sign over the right to use their work (most likely with names redacted). Never happen, but should.MagisterGreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12447106786489253060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-74397277728371018292012-10-09T20:54:27.246-07:002012-10-09T20:54:27.246-07:00If you left the names on the papers the system wou...If you left the names on the papers the system would certainly be actionable in the proper sense of the word—you could get sued for doing it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com