tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post427042251918056026..comments2024-03-26T04:19:38.862-07:00Comments on kitchen table math, the sequel: revolutionaries, architects and education systemsCatherine Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-61621381661517731512010-02-01T06:24:06.508-08:002010-02-01T06:24:06.508-08:00My own take on the history is that, whatever the i...My own take on the history is that, whatever the intentions of the people who established publics schooling, they have not produced compliance. <br />Since the establishment of public schooling we have seen some pretty radical social changes, for example the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s, the legalisation amd legitimisation of homosexual behaviour, the second wave of feminism, the 1960s counter-culture movement, Communist parties getting nearly majorities of the vote in some Western European countries, Margaret Thatcher's massive reforms against the economic Post-WWII consensus, followed by Reaganomics and Roger Douglas. Now not everyone may approve of all of this (I've deliberately listed economic movements that are so disparate that nearly everyone will disagree with one of them), but I think we can all agree that they are massive changes, many of which people in the 19th century or early 20th century would have found horrifying.<br />My own explanation is that once you have taught kids to read you've opened up their minds, regardless of your intention. And that brainwashing that sticks is far harder than most poeple think.Tracy Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08999246551652981965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-90500811310537976832010-01-23T18:08:57.044-08:002010-01-23T18:08:57.044-08:00As long as you are looking at foundation myths, pl...As long as you are looking at foundation myths, please consider Korea.<br /><br />In 1398, Yo Sung-Gyeh Taejo who established the Yi Dynasty, also established 234 public schools (Hyang Gyo) the 7th year of his reign. His aims were to free people from illiteracy, carry cultural habits forward, and arrange rituals for Confucius and other wise men.<br /><br />We could criticize the elitism of that time, but what culture didn't exhibit it during that period?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05874420997475288571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-81739425490466510232010-01-23T05:18:30.663-08:002010-01-23T05:18:30.663-08:00>>On the whole, I find his work encouraging,...>>On the whole, I find his work encouraging, in a perverse way. <<<br /><br />I like the way you put this. I find Gatto to be incredibly cathartic at times when the madness has gotten to be too much. There's something about reading someone who can put into words what I so often feel helpless to describe or process.Redkuduhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13756085609311571044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-85525103784794676402010-01-23T03:16:24.068-08:002010-01-23T03:16:24.068-08:00Gatto is a self-professed Libertarian and definite...Gatto is a self-professed Libertarian and definitely a provocateur. When I first read his stuff -- in the 90's sometime -- I thought he was <i>waaaaaay</i> over the top (sheesh, was I ever naive in those days). Some fifteen years later, after considerably more and varied experience and a lot of investigation into the workings of the education "blob," participation in various fora where I learned that the atrocities I had witnessed were not anomalous but occur regularly across the continent -- I reread Gatto with much less scepticism.<br /> <br />Underground History was an eye-opener. One thing I like to do, however, in any topic I'm very interested in, is check out the sources the author refers to. When investigating reading or math research, for instance, I go straight to the original published studies or abstracts, if I can find them, and try to get the straight dope. Gatto didn't footnote his book but he provided a number of leads to follow. I doubted that the influence of corporate barons and captains of industry was as intimate and extensive as he alleged, and I was not aware of the degree to which public education was permeated by the eugenics movement. <br /><br /> However, when I tracked down a lot of his sources (still need to get a look at some lengthy U.S. Gov. publications -- off to the Library of Congress on my next trip back to DC) I found that, if anything, Gatto understated his case. Many of those who were movers and shakers in the development of public education were open about their intention to use it as a means of social control, management of the proletariat, fostering a consumer society of diligent worker bees, with a way for a few talented lower class kids to rise and periodically refresh the gene pool of the elite. <br /><br /> The fact that Rockefeller and Carnegie spent more than double what the government spent on public education is not well known, and the documents from their respective foundations made it clear that removing children from their parents' (baleful) influence and molding their malleable young minds was a top priority, <i>not </i>development of individual talents and autonomy. <br /> <br />Paradoxically, somehow the system also attracts those with a belief in Rousseau's view of the noble child who is to be left in purity to explore the world on his own terms. How these unlikely bedfellows have in fact woven a mesh that entraps many into diminished expectations and shrunken vistas for their adult lives is an oxymoron I haven't quite figured out, but it seems to be the case. Of course, the PC spin is quite different from the reality.<br /> <br />Some of Gatto's cynicism is vividly explained <a href="http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/4f.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a><br /> <br />On the whole, I find his work encouraging, in a perverse way. While he expounds upon the many and varied evils (and they are real evils) of the "system," especially in large bureaucracies such as NYC, he also is living proof that an iconoclastic individual can make a positive difference: music to the ears of a guerrilla instructivist.<br /> <br />He goes on:<br /> <br /><i>A relative handful of people could change the course of schooling significantly by resisting the suffocating advance of centralization and standardization of children, by being imaginative and determined in their resistance, by exploiting manifold weaknesses in the institution’s internal coherence: the disloyalty its own employees feel toward it. It took 150 years to build this apparatus; it won’t quit breathing overnight. The formula is to take a deep breath, then select five smooth stones and let fly. The homeschoolers have already begun.</i>palisadeskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13700503881038569921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-15528023008507366262010-01-22T12:58:02.533-08:002010-01-22T12:58:02.533-08:00Mmm. Gatto has a visible spin, but I think he has ...Mmm. Gatto has a visible spin, but I think he has value, even if that value is closely connected with his provocation. <br /><br />It is very interesting to get a glimpse the architects of American public education and what they thought. Many of them were quite unapologetically unprogressive. In so far as to get your attention, I am willing to tolerate a little spin. A stream for the masses to work in factories. A stream for a working class needing a little more expertise. A stream for managers. <br /><br />I mean, I feel that Aldous Huxley used the analogy of Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Epsilon, etc. for good reason. Brave New World kind of resonated in me as a Singaporean schoolboy suffering under the anti-intellectual rigours of streaming. <br /><br />Of course if you're trying to do some serious scholarship and present reforms to a committee (horrors! committees! they do so much good and yet so much evil), Gatto is probably not a good source.le radical galoisienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14684821442296479803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-9360194588341410182010-01-22T08:01:56.933-08:002010-01-22T08:01:56.933-08:00I have a read some of Gatto's work, and I have...I have a read some of Gatto's work, and I have a hard time trusting it because of the political spin. I prefer Diane Ravitch's "Left Back: A Century of Failed School Reform" for the history of American public schools since about 1895, and "The Schools We Need" by E. D. Hirsch for the philosophical background. Both of these books stuck to more of a "just the facts" presentation, and I didn't have to spend a lot of energy trying to look for the facts behind the spin.Sara Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03634721196680595833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-16460151319276996122010-01-22T06:15:34.656-08:002010-01-22T06:15:34.656-08:00How my mother found out I think was that someone e...How my mother found out I think was that someone else told her... the guy giving the seminar was fairly humble. He was just genuinely interested in improving the lot of Singaporean students. <br /><br />I think she wasn't sure whether it would be worth going to until one of the deans for our level basically recommended the seminar to my mother. I think that's where she got the scoop from.le radical galoisienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14684821442296479803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-17563258983867722972010-01-22T06:10:55.820-08:002010-01-22T06:10:55.820-08:00Barry: interesting... my mother actually met the i...Barry: interesting... my mother actually met the inventor of the bar model method once -- I just can't remember his name off the top of my head. He was giving a seminar, giving advice to Singaporean parents about math off a powerpoint slide (when ppt slides are useful!). <br /><br />AFAIK his name is fairly obscure. There are some fairly obscure people who have had great influence over Singaporean history. The same goes for American education -- they may be distinguished in their own institution, field or circle (one was a president of Harvard) -- but relatively unknown in history.<br /><br />I kinda feel there's a lot about Singaporean history that has been covered up -- either by the sands of time or intentionally -- over the years. It makes me ... intrigued. Another interesting case that might be lost to time if the proper study isn't done soon is the development of Singapore creole (Singlish). AFAIK it did not really exist in the 1960s -- Bazaar Malay was the koine dialect of choice. Sometime between then and now, Bazaar Malay was replaced by Singapore creolised English. If you listen carefully you can still sometimes catch very old Chinese grandparents / greatgrandparents using Bazaar Malay. (My grandfather used it -- he did not know Mandarin -- but he's no longer around.)le radical galoisienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14684821442296479803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-91354674696232824772010-01-22T05:47:57.295-08:002010-01-22T05:47:57.295-08:00IMO the biggest problem with the education system ...IMO the biggest problem with the education system is that they aren't melding facts with social engineering.. or whatever they call it.<br /><br />You can't debate a POV if you don't know the facts. You can't build a tree without roots and a solid foundation. <br /><br />So first things that need to be taught is facts - math, science, history, geography - etc. Public school should be full of facts. Stories read, questions answered, black and white.<br /><br />Then when one gets to highschool we have a base for which to form an opinion. Form a debate. Children today are not allowed to debate... climategate/glaciergate are taboo in the school system... why are we teaching recycling in public school anyways... Not only are they not allowed to do so... they can't b/c they've never learned the facts on which to base their opinion in the first place, nor work to prove the standard "opinion" wrong.<br /><br />Remember the facebook or somewhere page where they wanted to ban water from products... using it's scientific name and people bought into it... Those are the kind of people we're raising. They are arguing about the gov't proroging here... but none of the Univ crowd even knows Parliment wasn't even going to open until the 25th, nor that gov't does still run when it's not in session. Gov't isn't actually closed, they just aren't in Ottawa. It's only a month when the Olympics are... Of course the Opposition parties nor the news media are going to enlighten them... Frighteningly, uneducated children we are raising.farmwifetwohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02680758336779501712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-26267469322205937682010-01-22T05:40:47.619-08:002010-01-22T05:40:47.619-08:00Thank you for this post. I appreciate the history...Thank you for this post. I appreciate the history of education initiatives in Singapore. I was trying to research that a bit when I wrote <a href="http://educationnext.org/miracle-math/" rel="nofollow">an article on Singapore Math </a> <br /><br />I contacted various people at the Singapore Ministry of Education to get the history of the development of the Singapore "Primary Math" series, and in particular where bar modeling had come from.<br /><br />They were very guarded in their answers and would not divulge any information. One kind man at the Nanyang Technological University gave me some limited info, including:<br /><br /> <i>Dr KHO Tek-Hon, who was the Primary Mathematics Project Director (from 1980 – mid 1990s).Together with members of his project team they designed and developed (pilot tested, trialed with independent formative evaluations & then eventually given to the most competent and competitive commercial publisher) and wrote the different editions of the Singapore Primary Science “Textbooks”.</i><br /><br /><br />I finally contacted a math teacher in Singapore (whose name I got from an article she wrote. She helped me out and gave me some history, though could not mention any names. Here is what she told me:<br /><br /><i>Yesterday I had lunch with one of the directors of the MOE maths project. I raised your question with him. Nothing is documented and this was his explanations for the improvement in maths performance. <br /><br />Earlier on in the 1980s the children did not do so well in maths because they had weak knowledge of maths facts, the algorithms as well as word problem solving. He found the children were still using their fingers to do addition when they were taught the addition algorithm. Changes were brought in such that the focus was to ensure that children were proficient in their basic number facts. He explained that as “success breeds success”, if children could add successfully, they were more likely to learn other aspects of maths- in this case addition algorithm, etc. There were no grand goals. <br /><br />Next he helped children develop strategies to solve word problems, e.g. using Polya’s 4 stages and introducing the model method as a problem solving heuristic. <br /><br />All the time the Brunerian philosophy underpinned his ideas of how children learn – concrete-pictorial-abstract approach of learning. With the model method, pupils were taught a method to try and understand the situation given in a word problem. <br /><br />We can’t quote names because he will be most unhappy if I did use his name. <br /><br />So <br /><br />(i) no grand ideas – just simple details – help children learn their facts well and then help them use the facts<br /><br />(ii)learn how to solve word problems<br /> <br />All these changes are not documented although I am sure there were minutes of meetings. <br /><br />Also I suspect with the Singapore society became more affluent, parents had more time to spend on their children and also to think of ways to help children. I think the success in education also matched the development of the society. Not that America nor the west are not affluent, but across society they have different values. If you look at the poor, all their energies are geared towards finding enough money for the next meal. They don’t have time to think of helping their children with their work. However having said that, many Chinese families in Malaysia are not well off but they made sure their children study hard as no one is going to help them should they fail.</i>Barry Garelickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01281266848110087415noreply@blogger.com