tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post6204223305141153583..comments2024-03-26T04:19:38.862-07:00Comments on kitchen table math, the sequel: Wrecking rigorous math in high school, non Common Core editionCatherine Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-82347129198435030802019-05-28T02:33:35.395-07:002019-05-28T02:33:35.395-07:00maths in high school clear your confusion. When I ...maths in high school clear your confusion. When I was in school one of my teacher always teaches us about the <a href="https://getfactors.com/" rel="nofollow">factors of numbers</a> and its pairs. Now I am an expert to find the factors of different numbers and integers. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-87693706623353746242013-11-23T18:38:48.594-08:002013-11-23T18:38:48.594-08:00this system can't be saved;
the enemies of cla...<i>this system can't be saved;<br />the enemies of clarity have won.</i><br /><br />Well…one more reason to be a regular at school board meetings. <br /><br />Our curriculum director is a master at slinging the lingo …. so my job is to get up and parry in plain English.<br /><br />I'm basically providing the comic relief.<br /><br />The ridiculous thing is that the curriculum director **is** doing **some** things I have desperately wanted the district to do for years (interim assessments, for instance!)<br /><br />I get the feeling she may bring in a real reading curriculum (although that would be so miraculous that I'm not placing bets).<br /><br />I think she might be better off not blowing smoke.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-15829563446601724402013-11-23T18:29:25.162-08:002013-11-23T18:29:25.162-08:00Hi Vlorbik!
Allison - that is horrifying!
Good L...Hi Vlorbik!<br /><br />Allison - that is horrifying!<br /><br />Good Lord.<br /><br />Here's the 2006 use of cargo cult education at the old ktm, by Becky: <a href="http://www.kitchentablemath.net/twiki/bin/view/Kitchen/CargoCultLucyFromBecky?skin=plain" rel="nofollow">Cargo Cult Lucy From Becky </a>Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-64851386114231724182013-11-23T14:01:50.657-08:002013-11-23T14:01:50.657-08:00"This can't be blamed on ed schools, eith..."This can't be blamed on ed schools, either."<br /><br />college *mathematics* departments<br />routinely promulgate a *lot* of<br />worse-than-useless rituals designed<br />to *replace thinking* about<br />whatever calculations are being<br />performed. <br /><br />most "remedial" classes are devoted<br />*mostly* to suchlike opposite-of-math<br />rituals, indeed. but it's not just there.<br /><br />*many* of the students i grade papers<br />for in linear algebra... having somehow<br />passed 4 quarters of calculus (so-called)<br />still have no clear idea what "=" means.<br /><br />i'm not kidding. everyone else who<br />marks their papers knows this too<br />but i'm the only one talking about it.<br />no damn wonder. trying to do stuff<br />right *will* get you fired.<br /><br />textbooks? any competent instructor<br />will *routinely* need to correct<br />*major blunders* in any lower-division<br />text (and this is creeping upward).<br />clear and correct notations are<br />suppressed in favor of harder-<br />-to-understand *verbal* presentations<br />that few students will ever even<br />*try* to reproduce accurately<br />(usually this is in some sense for the<br />best since the verbal version will<br />have bugs not present in the code).<br /><br />this system can't be saved;<br />the enemies of clarity have won.<br /><br />vlorbik (his mark)<br />http://vlorbik.wordpress.com<br />(once & future blog)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-27376202025773725222013-11-23T13:44:43.502-08:002013-11-23T13:44:43.502-08:00testing.testing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-65262865696873062212013-11-23T13:06:22.515-08:002013-11-23T13:06:22.515-08:00You CAN teach a full, honors-level physics to stud...You CAN teach a full, honors-level physics to students who have not had trig. My school moved trig into later in the 11th grade pre-calc class (without mentioning that to the physics teachers). But it takes only 20 minutes to teach enough trig to then handle a wide range of vector problems. You just have to emphasize the component method because they won't see law of sines or law of cosines until the spring. <br /><br />In fact, while I wouldn't want to see physics moved to 9th grade, I'd be happy to teach it before chem. So much of chemistry makes no sense until you've had physics. -- PhilAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-26581326168230464262013-11-23T05:42:15.707-08:002013-11-23T05:42:15.707-08:00At my older kids excellent HS (outstanding math/sc...At my older kids excellent HS (outstanding math/sci program), the upper-level AP physics (A&M, BC IIRC), was calculus based, so all students were required to have concurrent enrollment in AP calc BC. As with all of the sciences, students had to have taken the honors course first, which required concurrent enrollment in pre-calc (aka Elementary Functions and Analytic Geometry). Both the calc and the physics (also AP chem) were really college-level and had double periods every day. That was 20 years ago now, but the last time I looked at the website, the sequence is still the same (except they re-named the pre-calc course, which was referred to as EFAG).momof4noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-71701924869378370232013-11-22T19:28:38.985-08:002013-11-22T19:28:38.985-08:00And continuing Auntie Ann's point, because phy...And continuing Auntie Ann's point, because physics is now First. As in taught before bio and chem. Google Physics First.allisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11240524782309335161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-71657840564307157062013-11-22T12:53:14.490-08:002013-11-22T12:53:14.490-08:00http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/22/too-hard-texas-d...http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/22/too-hard-texas-drops-algebra-ii-as-high-school-graduation-requirement/<br /><br />"The Texas Board of Education has given preliminary approval to a plan that will eliminate algebra II as a high school graduation requirement for more students.<br /><br />"The Texas state legislature gave unanimous approval to the change back in May as part of a huge overhaul of the state’s graduation and high-stakes standardized testing regime, reports The Dallas Morning News.<br /><br />"Proponents of the elimination of the algebra II requirement and other academic requirements say the change provides more choices. Now, they say, more students can learn a trade or focus on practical career training if they want."Auntie Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777983027361603449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-57761326693617607942013-11-22T12:41:58.760-08:002013-11-22T12:41:58.760-08:00You have to have trig either concurrent to or prec...You have to have trig either concurrent to or preceding the taking of physics. You can't do much with vectors if you can't get beyond 3-4-5 triangles.Auntie Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777983027361603449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-67738022344298487052013-11-22T11:40:59.591-08:002013-11-22T11:40:59.591-08:00Why does Trig have to come up before 11th grade pr...Why does Trig have to come up before 11th grade pre-Calc (or what used to be known as College Algebra/Trig). Yes, Geometry prepares you for Trig, but the heavy0duty stuff used to come in 11th grade, even for advanced math students.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-777198539360090892013-11-22T11:01:13.051-08:002013-11-22T11:01:13.051-08:00Vicky asked?
Allison, when does trig get taught i...Vicky asked?<br /><br />Allison, when does trig get taught in MN? When does it come in via the CC in other states?<br /><br />Inside the MN geometry standards, there is a small amount of trig.<br /><br />In MN, the "new alg 2" (which teaches quadratic functions) comes in 9th, geometry in 10th, and "pre calc", where you lesrn alg 2+trig comes in 11th.<br /><br />This is one of the geometry standards: <br />"Know and apply properties of right triangles, including properties of 45-45-90 and 30-60-90 triangles, to solve problems and logically justify results.<br />For example: Use 30-60-90 triangles to analyze geometric figures involving equilateral triangles and hexagons.<br />Another example: Determine exact values of the trigonometric ratios in these special triangles using relationships among the side lengths."<br /><br />So hopefully that is inside the unit circle.<br /><br />Nothing beyond sine, cosine, and tangent are in the standards.<br />"Apply the trigonometric ratios sine, cosine and tangent to<br />solve problems, such as determining lengths and areas in right<br />triangles and in figures that can be decomposed into right<br />triangles. Know how to use calculators, tables or other<br />technology to evaluate trigonometric ratios."<br /><br />But it isn't before 2nd term soph year. And it doesn't have to be in geometry at all--it just has to be in some required course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-51324675269683198162013-11-21T10:14:43.945-08:002013-11-21T10:14:43.945-08:00Even worse. Schools should concentrate on academic...Even worse. Schools should concentrate on academics; it's not as if they're doing so wonderfully well with any subgroup (academic or demographic) that they should be spending time on feelings and attitudes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-8449139949732611242013-11-21T06:56:06.874-08:002013-11-21T06:56:06.874-08:00@momof4
"Writing about personal feelings? Gag...@momof4<br />"Writing about personal feelings? Gag. Please, get on with the more difficult reading and academic writing - hurry! Let the kids who want to navel gaze or write stories do their diaries and stories on their own time."<br /><br />I suspect they're encouraged to write about personal feelings not for purposes of navel-gazing, but rather so the schools can monitor them for any politically-incorrect attitudes and target them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-89972175279312970362013-11-20T22:13:38.557-08:002013-11-20T22:13:38.557-08:00Allison, when does trig get taught in MN? When do...Allison, when does trig get taught in MN? When does it come in via the CC in other states? I'm tutoring a student in a basic physics class, and during the first month they did problems involving vector addition. She's lost because she has never seen trig functions, much less inverse functions to get the angles. It's not rocket science to teach this and it is probably one of the few math subjects non-STEM people might actually encounter alter on!VickyShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01379636377049707525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-13653141499706010722013-11-19T19:08:19.598-08:002013-11-19T19:08:19.598-08:00You an read the MN standards here.
https://docs.g...You an read the MN standards here.<br /><br />https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=bXNtaS1tbi5vcmd8bWFpbi1zaXRlfGd4OmFlZDEzZDVjOTc2ZjQ2Mw<br /><br />They were so vague that then the state wrote benchmarks, which effectively are cut and paste examples so you can teach to the state test. <br /><br />9.2.1.5 says "Identify the vertex, line of symmetry, and intercepts of a parabola corresponding to the quadratic function..."<br />that's the algebra 2 standard.<br /><br />No mention of conic sections, hyperbola, or ellipses per se in the standards. Meaning none of that is in algebra 1 or 2. If it is taught, it is in pre calc now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-9263623631380008392013-11-19T16:16:19.072-08:002013-11-19T16:16:19.072-08:00@Auntie Ann - So far as I know, that content would...@Auntie Ann - So far as I know, that content would be included under quadratic functions on that list. I remember parabolas, etc being covered in my kid's algebra I class last year. Looking at the CCSM standards - references are under the geometry section.<br /><br />Must be the season for meetings about Common Core - I'll be going to two this week, one at the middle school and one at high school.kcabnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-14861093262119377202013-11-19T15:07:17.745-08:002013-11-19T15:07:17.745-08:00Stories? Gag. Writing about personal feelings? Gag...Stories? Gag. Writing about personal feelings? Gag. Please, get on with the more difficult reading and academic writing - hurry! Let the kids who want to navel gaze or write stories do their diaries and stories on their own time. I also hope the history teachers assign more and better reading and writing. Bottom-line, though, I forsee massive efforts to avoid all of the above as much as possible, while watering down math and backing off acceleration Sighmomof4noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-37525333204295812732013-11-19T13:48:24.386-08:002013-11-19T13:48:24.386-08:00@Auntie Ann: Our Silicon Valley K-8 school distric...@Auntie Ann: Our Silicon Valley K-8 school district just had its Introduction to Common Core meeting last night. A six-person panel, including the district super, addressed a packed audience of parents and told us about the changes coming with CC.<br /><br />The super started off the meeting with a statement that the transition to Common Core would not result in any reduction in faster courses of study or some such wording. I *think* this meant that, among other things, the advanced math track in middle school wouldn't be canceled. We have an advanced math track, where a few 6th graders (whose parents make enough fuss) are allowed to start in pre-algebra instead of "6th grade math," and there is a bigger "AS" (advanced studies) English track that lots of kids get into without much difficulty.<br /><br />I wasn't comfortable with the number of times the marvels of differentiated instruction were emphasized by others on the panel, so I'm not totally convinced they won't convert any advanced tracks into "normal track but differentiated," while claiming that it is the same. I couldn't ask, either, because so many other parents had questions, but this was an audience that was CLEARLY intensely interested in maintaining advanced tracks. (The majority were Asian.) They would have rioting in the streets if they canceled our advanced tracks. At one point, the English teacher on the panel responded pointedly that she taught AS English and, "as we keep saying, the AS English program is not going away." But then the middle school math dept. representative on the panel kept making comments about how "acceleration is overrated," so we'll see.<br /><br />The main emphases were that math has been "a mile wide and an inch deep," and with CC they are going to switch to teaching fewer things in greater depth. Also, the English program was going to do less fiction and more non-fiction, more parsing of difficult readings, more writing that argues a position using sources instead of personal feelings, etc. The AS English teacher described the changes as, "I personally like assigning them to write lots of stories, but I'm going to have to start assigning more non-fiction, academic-style writing."<br /><br />Sounds good to me.<br /><br />Glennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-25267818307733024422013-11-19T13:19:52.899-08:002013-11-19T13:19:52.899-08:00Allison's list doesn't show any conic sect...Allison's list doesn't show any conic sections. Formulas for circles, parabolas, ellipses, and hyperbolas. Or is that what they're calling "quadratic functions"?<br /><br />I seem to recall looking at those equations, graphing them, finding centerpoint, radius, focii, etc., in my first Algebra class back in 8th grade.<br /><br />Are they still in there somewhere?Auntie Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777983027361603449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-18136583723666376262013-11-19T11:01:00.004-08:002013-11-19T11:01:00.004-08:00I believe the link Allison gave for content of aut...I believe the link Allison gave for content of authentic algebra courses covers both Algebra I and II. At least, that is what it says in the NMAP report where it appears on pg 16, http://www2.ed.gov/about/bdscomm/list/mathpanel/report/final-report.pdf kcabnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-18365936247984058042013-11-19T08:45:44.344-08:002013-11-19T08:45:44.344-08:00FYI: Here's some of the UCSMP Algebra book, in...FYI: Here's some of the <a href="https://www.mheonline.com/assets/wg_download/ucsmp/algebra_sampler.pdf" rel="nofollow">UCSMP Algebra book</a>, including the table of contents which starts on page 12 of the PDF (internally, it starts on page 10.) <br /><br />And here's the <a href="https://www.mheonline.com/assets/wg_download/ucsmp/adv_algebra_sampler.pdf" rel="nofollow">Advanced Algebra sample</a>, which has the Table of Contents on page 12 as well.<br /><br />And finally, here's their <a href="https://www.mheonline.com/assets/wg_download/ucsmp/fst_sampler.pdf" rel="nofollow">Functions, Statistics and Trig sample</a>Auntie Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777983027361603449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-21215742222039361472013-11-19T06:26:29.403-08:002013-11-19T06:26:29.403-08:00"... and there was no wording allowing for ac..."... and there was no wording allowing for acceleration."<br /><br />Acceleration happens in high school. That will never change. I hope. I see the big battle ground as middle school. Will we go backwards? Nothing in the NO STEM CC fixes K-6. This is nothing new, but I think there is a good chance of going backwards in 7th and 8th grades. <br /><br />I don't know why CC never investigated the issue of full inclusion in K-6 and the implied need for separation of students. The one-size-fits-all philosophy only applies as a means to define a minimal high school cutoff. It may define a higher low end cutoff for many states, but many treat it like it defines best practices for all students? When does this change, in 5th grade, in 8th grade?<br /><br />Ask the parents who fix things at home or with tutors. Parents are taught to shut-up, do it themselves, but still bake cookies and support the schools. I think about all of the conspiratorial parent conversations I've had on the soccer sidelines and at the grocery store.<br />SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-86144649726649612722013-11-19T06:09:58.783-08:002013-11-19T06:09:58.783-08:00"This can't be blamed on ed schools, eith..."This can't be blamed on ed schools, either."<br /><br />I disagree with this. I see this as the biggest problem for K-6. I saw a clear fundamental difference in opinion and philosophy with our schools. This was not something that could be discussed. This is their turf. They are the experts. I've referred to what I've called preemptive parental strikes. I will always remember when our son's first grade teacher told us that "Yes, he has a lot of superficial knowledge." when we naively said that he loved geography. There is also the threat of being called a helicopter parent (or worse) to keep parents in their place.<br /><br />We couldn't talk about phonics. They would not even admit that it was a viable alternative. The Kindergarten teacher looked at us like we were abusive parents when we mentioned that we had our son doing math worksheets. This was not just a difference in acceleration. The first grade teacher went on and on about kids finding their "voice". Spelling and complete sentences didn't matter. You couldn't disagree without implying that their philosophy was fundamentally wrong. That's all they know - discovered on their own, I'm sure. We couldn't even begin to argue that differentiated instruction was a fairy tale. <br /><br />I started to see a change in our middle school teachers who had to be certified in the areas they taught. The high school teachers are completely different from the K-6 teachers. In high school, the problem is more about allocation of resources. Will they reduce the number of AP classes so that more funds can be spent to meet the low state cutoff standards? I don't think they do this because the most involved students and parents would not stand for it. High schools have to deal with the reality imposed by colleges and careers. K-8 schools still live in their own educational and pedagogical fairyland. They love real world problems, but they live in a dream world. Our improved math textbooks hit a dead end when they ran into the pedagogical silliness and low expectations of K-6 Everyday Math.<br /><br />I see no way to change what's in the hearts and minds of K-6 educators. CC is a matter of redefinition, not real change. One would think that the CC definition of NO STEM in K-6 would be a smoking gun, not that this is anything new, but it's right there in black and white. PARCC had to calibrate that their top PLD level (5 - "Distinguished") in math only means that it is likely you will be prepared to pass a class in college algebra; material students start learning in middle school!<br /><br /><br /><br />SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-32691392084756095612013-11-19T05:55:46.643-08:002013-11-19T05:55:46.643-08:00When CC first came out here in California, there w...When CC first came out here in California, there was some question of whether its adoption, and the wording of the exact statute that implemented it, would allow for advanced students to proceed to Calculus in high school. The law in CA was apparently written in such a way as to declare what students should be learning in any given year, and there was no wording allowing for acceleration. <br /><br />I haven't heard much about this since, so either the law was changed or conveniently reinterpreted to accommodate advanced students.Auntie Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777983027361603449noreply@blogger.com