tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post6627483475424193942..comments2024-03-26T04:19:38.862-07:00Comments on kitchen table math, the sequel: comments neededCatherine Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-68049607031198756882009-02-28T14:13:00.001-08:002009-02-28T14:13:00.001-08:00no homework for children until they are at least i...<I>no homework for children until they are at least in the third grade</I><BR/><BR/>I agree.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-18415278304331294682009-02-28T14:13:00.000-08:002009-02-28T14:13:00.000-08:00School districts everywhere took away the vocation...<I>School districts everywhere took away the vocational arts programs: wood shop, cooking, sewing, drafting, etc.<BR/><BR/>[snip]<BR/><BR/>Now the school districts spend a lot of energy and money trying to implement hands-on uses of mathematics in the math classroom. Since there is not enough time to teach math and the vocational classes in the time allotted for math, the districts 'train' parents to do hands-on math projects at home.</I><BR/><BR/>I routinely tear my hair out over this one.<BR/><BR/>If you want the kids to have hands-on learning, BRING BACK SHOP.<BR/><BR/>BRING BACK HOME EC.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-3022808928428916732009-02-28T14:11:00.000-08:002009-02-28T14:11:00.000-08:00What is going on during school time now? I might a...<I>What is going on during school time now? I might as well homeschool fulltime if the schools are just going to turn me into an afterschooler!</I><BR/><BR/>A couple of years ago I sat next to a man who had headed the Jet Propulsion Lab at one time (I wish to heck I could remember his name).<BR/><BR/>He'd had all kinds of battles with his school district.<BR/><BR/>At one point he went to a board meeting and said, "You have the kids sequestered here 6 hours a day and you're teaching them nothing in that time."Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-19214790481743084332009-02-28T13:52:00.000-08:002009-02-28T13:52:00.000-08:00Our school still uses Everyday Mathematics. Just ...Our school still uses Everyday Mathematics. Just one of the many reasons I decided to homeschool. Some schools may have tutorial nights for parents, and I believe EM even has a web site where parents can go, but only the brightest students and the students with the most involved parents are going to get it. Even though many school districts across the country are dropping EM and other such reformed math programs, some continue to hang on tooth and claw. I just don't understand. From what I understand, it's extremely expensive to implement and time consuming - especially with all of the special teacher training and parent tutoring you have to do.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15202716125247172211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-17042183503356080652009-02-28T10:56:00.000-08:002009-02-28T10:56:00.000-08:00YES, the car. Math facts, spelling, parts of speec...YES, the car. Math facts, spelling, parts of speech, state capitals/flowers/birds, geography, history, civics, inventions, famous people etc. etc. LOTS of time spent in the car, but not wasted; lots of time on academic stuff not taught/stressed in school and lots of great conversations with the kids.<BR/><BR/> For long trips, we had tapes of patriotic songs, folk songs, cowboy songs/classical music etc. that used to be part of the school experience. With no music and art teachers, my regular classroom teachers provided real education in music and art appreciation. Sadly, none of my kids' music or art teachers did any of that - it was all performance. No mention of our fine arts heritage.<BR/><BR/>I apologize for the digressionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-60389496461985678282009-02-28T10:15:00.000-08:002009-02-28T10:15:00.000-08:00School districts everywhere took away the vocation...School districts everywhere took away the vocational arts programs: wood shop, cooking, sewing, drafting, etc. They did this for two reasons. One, they were considered costly, and two, they were considered to be inequitable since many 'low performing' students landed in those classes.<BR/><BR/>Now the school districts spend a lot of energy and money trying to implement hands-on uses of mathematics in the math classroom. Since there is not enough time to teach math and the vocational classes in the time allotted for math, the districts 'train' parents to do hands-on math projects at home.<BR/><BR/>This system might work for the family that has enough income to support a stay-at-home parent (that parent usually doesn't need the training) but the parents that have two jobs and are struggling to survive are not going to have enough time to get trained or do math with their kids. So who gets hurt? The kids that originally landed in the vocational arts classes. <BR/><BR/>And, as a parent that read to my kids every night and did math with them every day (captive audience in the car), I really resented when teachers sent home an assignment that I had to do.<BR/><BR/>Secondly, as an educator, I don't believe in homework assignments for children who are not old enough to be responsible for the assignment themselves, i.e. no homework for children until they are at least in the third grade.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-60189513207953466862009-02-27T18:12:00.000-08:002009-02-27T18:12:00.000-08:00I've heard nightmare stories about time-consum...<I>I've heard nightmare stories about time-consuming Investigations & Everyday Math math homework, but fortunately so far, it only takes about one minute (Sally picked 18 apples. She made applesauce with 9 of them. How many does she have left? Show your work).</I><BR/><BR/>The Everyday Math homework is not time-consuming. It's just that if the child doesn't understand what is to be done, there is no textbook to look at for any clue. Sometimes the procedures they have worked on in class are very good--but the kids just don't remember them. And the parents have to guess. Sometimes the procedures are extremely bad, out of sequence, and the child has had no preparation or instruction on how to solve it.Barry Garelickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01281266848110087415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-51804172604290284472009-02-27T15:01:00.000-08:002009-02-27T15:01:00.000-08:00This is partly a difference between high and low-...This is partly a difference between high and low-SES school communities. In very low SES urban neighborhoods, especially with many families that do not speak English, the expectation that parents will help with work at home to any significant degree simply won't wash.<BR/><BR/>My district does not permit using homework for school grades -- all work used to evaluate student learning must be done in school. The expectation is that all the teaching required will <I>also</I> be done in school. Our primary division is really quite strong on the teaching side of things, with the vast majority of kids meeting or exceeding expectations for their grade and a lot of support and good instructional practices (if not curricula) are in place.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, with high mobility and transience, by the middle school years there is a huge influx of students lacking the preparation "our" kids received and the achievement is much more varied and the task confronting classroom teachers almost impossible. <BR/><BR/> Nevertheless, a *lot* of learning does take place at school, and despite the odds, a number of our students are successful in getting into competitive secondary schools (usually these are students we have had from the beginning).<BR/><BR/>We have a long way to go, but the focus is certainly on teaching the kids *in school* and not on relying on parents or tutors to do it -- that is just not going to happen.palisadeskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13700503881038569921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-55118289732024456932009-02-27T14:18:00.000-08:002009-02-27T14:18:00.000-08:00To be fair, at the beginning of the year (1st grad...To be fair, at the beginning of the year (1st grade) we were given a (very glossy and colorful) Investigations textbook to take home with us (the only "contract" we had to sign was an agreement that we would be responsible for the textbook and return it in good condition at the end of the year).<BR/><BR/>I've heard nightmare stories about time-consuming Investigations & Everyday Math math homework, but fortunately so far, it only takes about one minute (Sally picked 18 apples. She made applesauce with 9 of them. How many does she have left? Show your work).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-77495620961274597722009-02-27T13:36:00.000-08:002009-02-27T13:36:00.000-08:00More evidence for my hypothesis that no teaching r...More evidence for my hypothesis that no teaching resulting in learning occurs in school. Whenever there is learning, it's outside, but at least the gains will be attributable to the public school this way!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-49455390806536111522009-02-27T13:30:00.000-08:002009-02-27T13:30:00.000-08:00What is the point of school if the learning isn't ...What is the point of school if the learning isn't taking place IN SCHOOL? Regular, large homework assignments for young children weren't necessary when I was in elementary school. At most, we were told to read some each night and have our parents sign off on it. What is going on during school time now? I might as well homeschool fulltime if the schools are just going to turn me into an afterschooler! (Actually, I'm already planning to homeschool for a few years to avoid "creative" methods of reading and math instruction that would hinder my children's development of academic skills and clarity in thought. Creativity is greatly overrated in elementary education, IMHO.)C Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01178189190498225759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-19759309732123274622009-02-27T12:34:00.000-08:002009-02-27T12:34:00.000-08:00"One recent morning, seven parents left their home..."One recent morning, seven parents left their homes and jobs and drove to an administrative office here to sit through a two-hour tutorial on addition and subtraction."<BR/><BR/>This sounds like the start of a word problem!<BR/><BR/><BR/>Then how many hours will it take to tutor parents when they get to fractions? How many hours for algebra? What is the shape of this curve? (Hint: Can you say "exponential"?)<BR/><BR/><BR/>Bonus question:<BR/><BR/>How much steeper will the curve be if the school uses discovery methods during their parent tutorials?<BR/><BR/>Please use your critical thinking skills.SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.com