tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post8380371946289145802..comments2024-03-26T04:19:38.862-07:00Comments on kitchen table math, the sequel: adjectives, adverbs, and "sentence modifiers"Catherine Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-7312702676386302032012-03-08T15:21:11.527-08:002012-03-08T15:21:11.527-08:00A man entered who was wearing a black coat.
Oh ye...<i>A man entered who was wearing a black coat.</i><br /><br />Oh yes!<br /><br />That's obvious --- thanks!Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-32866548004639147912012-03-08T15:20:02.931-08:002012-03-08T15:20:02.931-08:00WHEN AM I GOING TO FIND TIME TO READ MCCAWLEY??
K...WHEN AM I GOING TO FIND TIME TO READ MCCAWLEY??<br /><br />Kolln deals with it differently (I'll find time to get that up----)Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-68522380972736422022012-03-07T14:14:28.189-08:002012-03-07T14:14:28.189-08:00>>I saw a cat sitting on the roof that I'...>>I saw a cat sitting on the roof that I'd never seen before<br /><br />>>That's a shift?<br /><br />Yes, because the original position of the relative clause is as below:<br />embedded subject: [a cat [that I'd never seen before]]<br />embedded predicate: [sitting on the roof].<br /><br />Here's a more obvious example involving an un-embedded sentence (from our friend Jim McCawley):<br /><br />A man entered who was wearing a black coat.<br /><br />And (I'm collecting these!) here's one I've culled from Kipling (The Jungle Book):<br /><br />My lair is empty that was full when the moon was new.Katharine Bealshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02838879769628392605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-61715831382440346942012-03-07T10:54:06.129-08:002012-03-07T10:54:06.129-08:00I saw a cat sitting on the roof that I'd never...<i>I saw a cat sitting on the roof that I'd never seen before</i><br /><br />That's a shift?<br /><br />It's not a specific sequencing of adjectivals?<br /><br />Kolln says that when you have a sequence of adjectivals in different forms, the relative clause comes after the participial phrase:<br /><br />"the airplane on the far runway waiting to take off which was hijacked by terrorists"<br /><br />"on the runway," "waiting to take off," and "which was hijacked by terrorists" are all adjectivals (according to Kolln)<br /><br />If you say, "the large, black cat," you wouldn't characterize "large" as having been shifted away from the noun it modifies ---- <br /><br />Or would you?Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-5575910738116788052012-03-07T10:49:52.849-08:002012-03-07T10:49:52.849-08:00Fed Up Mom - No, I don't agree with you!
To m...Fed Up Mom - No, I don't agree with you!<br /><br />To me, "in my pajamas" is an adjectival. (I agree that if you see "in my pajamas" as a sentence modifier, then it can be located at the end of the sentence.)<br /><br />Adjectivals go next to the nouns they modify. <br /><br />You don't say "The cat is sleeping black."<br /><br />By the same token, you also don't say "I shot an elephant in my pajamas" when "in my pajamas" modifies "I." <br /><br />Here's a different example: <br /><br />"The book on the table belongs to Jane."<br /><br />In that sentence, the phrase "on the table" modifies "book." <br /><br />(At least, I think it does!) <br /><br />Assuming for the sake of argument that "on the table" is an adjectival modifying "book," you can't move "on the table" to the end of the sentence.<br /><br />You can't say: "The book belongs to Jane on the table."<br /><br />You can't say: "The book belongs on the table to Jane."Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-44116917630697251282012-03-07T10:19:40.128-08:002012-03-07T10:19:40.128-08:00Katharine - oh!
Interesting.
I don't underst...Katharine - oh!<br /><br />Interesting.<br /><br />I don't understand, but I'm intrigued.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-45881055933908250842012-03-06T14:40:14.102-08:002012-03-06T14:40:14.102-08:00Catherine, if I read this post correctly, you and ...Catherine, if I read this post correctly, you and Katharine actually agree with my point about the Groucho sentence.<br /><br />You're saying that "in my pajamas" is adverbial (or "sentential"), so it could go either at the beginning or end of the sentence, right? In that case you need to amend your original post on the subject, in which you claimed that Groucho's sentence had a misplaced modifier and needed to be corrected.FedUpMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00951858601020687242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-74193307095193182862012-03-06T13:33:57.032-08:002012-03-06T13:33:57.032-08:00Quick comment for now (off to teach about dyslexia...Quick comment for now (off to teach about dyslexia!) <br /><br />It's specifically sentence modifiers, rather than adverbs in general, that can move around a lot.<br /><br />Thus in:<br />Happily, the black cat is sitting on the roof.<br />"happily" is a sentence modifier (meaning luckily).<br /><br />There are two indepdendent dimensions of variance: <br />1. whether the modifier is a single word or a whole phrase.<br />2. what it modifies (some "adverbs" modify verbs, others modifier verb phrases, others modify sentences.)<br /><br />Sometimes you can shift (extrapose) a relative clause away from (rightwards of) the noun it modifies:<br /><br />I saw a cat that I'd never seen before sitting on the roof.<br />I saw a cat sitting on the roof that I'd never seen before.Katharine Bealshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02838879769628392605noreply@blogger.com