tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post8583945610938625801..comments2024-03-26T04:19:38.862-07:00Comments on kitchen table math, the sequel: Voices from the Classroom: Mrs. Bluebird and the Calculator RantCatherine Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-18299806978794354912010-04-14T07:07:49.052-07:002010-04-14T07:07:49.052-07:00Allison: my connection didn't say that calcula...Allison: my connection didn't say that calculators HAD to be allowed in precalc; only that they should be forbidden before then.momof4noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-84431794243301018052010-04-13T18:40:12.016-07:002010-04-13T18:40:12.016-07:00I teach physical science (high school fershmen) to...I teach physical science (high school fershmen) to kids who come from middle schools that didn't teach science (Paterson, NJ)and math is not there either - calculator or not. But I get them do all the physics problems (motion, gas laws etc) in format - I think I shared it, the way to write up the problems in science and do the necessary work on the formula first, before solving). I allow calculators, but I don't give credit for the numerical answer only. I give credit for the demonstrated logic of the solution in format/units. It took me since September... But yesterday, finally, all 75 of my Phys. sci. students were able to find velocity when given mass and momentum by re-working the formula p=mv.Oh. (I was taught the format starting in 2grade math to solve word problems)Exohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00088483662081343549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-32107339597768008412010-04-13T18:14:39.652-07:002010-04-13T18:14:39.652-07:00I agree with the teacher's rant -- if the calc...I agree with the teacher's rant -- if the calculator is allowed for math, it should be permitted for science. Otherwise you end up with the science teachers doing remedial math instead of science.<br /><br />It's stupid to allow calculators for either subject, but until you can get the math people to shun calculator use, you can't expect the science teachers to do both jobs (math and science).LynnGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11467061079495021347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-32173904306026780982010-04-13T16:14:51.281-07:002010-04-13T16:14:51.281-07:00I taught middle school math and if the kids don...I taught middle school math and if the kids don't know the facts by then, there isn't any really enough time to teach them and also do middle school content. I didn't allow calculators until Algebra and the CA state tests don't allow them either. The 6th and 7th graders had to get by without and I felt that more kids there knew their facts with that system. Imagine my horror moving to PA and becoming an elementary math specialist and finding out that 4th graders have to answer only 4!!! questions on the state tests without a calculator. Everything else is calculator allowed! There is also almost no computation on the tests, but there are graphs like you wouldn't believe. I feel enormous pressure to spend more time on things that I don't think are important and less on things that really are, because the state rewards the fluff. My 4th graders can all do long division, but they are going to look less proficient than some other schools' kids because we didn't spend a ton of time on obscure shapes and superficial probability.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667788992701978678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-468994293720107922010-04-13T15:57:00.217-07:002010-04-13T15:57:00.217-07:00--BTW, a connection with an engineering degree and...--BTW, a connection with an engineering degree and two master's (math, finance) recommends NO calculator use until the pre-calc/honors physics year, for graphing functions.<br /><br />The fixation on graphing calculators is, bluntly, ludicrous too, even in high school or higher.<br /><br />High schoolers should be able to graph with paper and pen. You look at the function and you know the shape; you solve the roots and you know the zeros. Done. Same in college.<br /><br />Graphing calculators are another way to turn off the brain of someone who should by inspection be able to tell if their equation is right. How? By checking the endpoints/boundary conditions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-69552993477757957602010-04-13T15:10:34.870-07:002010-04-13T15:10:34.870-07:00The math-without-a-calculator phobia isn't con...The math-without-a-calculator phobia isn't confined to junior and senior high students; I see it at the post-secondary level as well. I've had otherwise reasonably intelligent students turn their brain off and reach for a calculator to find something as innocuous as the square root of 9; students have expressed consternation when I insisted they take a quiz despite their neglecting to bring a calculator to class that day (paper and pencil computation was inconceivable to them, despite the quiz using easy numbers to work with), and I wouldn't permit a calculator substitute such as a cell phone.<br /><br />A couple of times I administered a "basics" quiz (which didn't count toward their overall course grade) at the beginning of a semester, in an attempt to gather some data to determine if there was a correlation between students' facility with basic math and their ultimate grade in the course. Although the prerequisites for the course were such that students needed proficiency in intermediate algebra, most of them could not do basic math. One of the things I remember was that a number of them would perform a long division problem and put the remainder as a decimal (e.g., if they had to do 217/36, they'd give an answer like 6.1, rather than 6 R 1. The results were so discouraging, I eventually gave up administering the quiz.Niels Henrik Abelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00554447042962336254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-80865992086215461572010-04-13T14:12:17.361-07:002010-04-13T14:12:17.361-07:00Hold on... why is the decree that no calculators a...Hold on... why is the decree that no calculators are allowed stupid, when that very rule is exactly what is letting you know they can't do math? It seems to be working pretty damned well to me.<br /><br />Why is she upset with the 'politics of testing' when the real culprits are the educators who preceded her? All the test is doing is proving that fact.Independent Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14559237565237736636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-34042658767719034442010-04-13T12:36:38.688-07:002010-04-13T12:36:38.688-07:00"What are teachers in the higher grades to do..."What are teachers in the higher grades to do, if the students in their prior education have been handicapped in this way?"<br /><br />Fix the lower grades. It is educational incompetence. We're not talking about doing two digit multiplication or long division by hand. We're talking about the times table. How much clearer can it be?<br /><br />If you don't have any influence on the situation, then create your own influence. Discuss the problem with parents. It's that important. It is not a solution for the upper grade teachers to just do the best they can to fix the problems in their own classroom.<br /><br /><br />"Better yet, the principal backed them! No calculators."<br /><br />Great! But even if you don't get support from the principal, you have to fight and not just be happy with remediation.SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-8140950635973864442010-04-13T12:05:29.764-07:002010-04-13T12:05:29.764-07:00When a relative was teaching third grade in a smal...When a relative was teaching third grade in a small Northeastern city, less than 10 years ago, almost all of the kids learned their multiplication tables that year, with a handful who struggled. A new, young teacher took over third grade and she moved to fifth. Kids from the first class she had not taught as third-graders were clueless on multiplication tables, corroborated by the other fifth-grade teacher. When they questioned the newest third-grade teacher, she assured them that she had not expected kids to learn the times tables, because she had been taught in ed school that "drill and kill" was terrible and would destroy their interet in math. Both fifth-grade teachers told her that was unacceptable, and why. Better yet, the principal backed them! No calculators.<br /><br />BTW, a connection with an engineering degree and two master's (math, finance) recommends NO calculator use until the pre-calc/honors physics year, for graphing functions.momof4noreply@blogger.com