tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post9011440471620435590..comments2024-03-26T04:19:38.862-07:00Comments on kitchen table math, the sequel: Open House - Grade 8Catherine Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03347093496361370174noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-20978757396507506882009-09-23T23:36:57.330-07:002009-09-23T23:36:57.330-07:00Dave-
You're way overqualified! You just nee...Dave-<br /><br />You're way overqualified! You just need any undergrad degree, it can even be in basket weaving or modern studies or what have you.<br /><br />A few of the questions are poorly worded and/or constructed, the whole social studies section has mostly really strange questions, but overall it's not a bad test, and I like the option to test your child with any grade level you wish. (Once they hit the upper grade ceilings of high school, you could switch to practice SAT tests, they correlate well to the actual test--well, they and the GRE tests did years ago when I took them!)<br /><br />My daughter got several "wrong" on the phonics portion that I consider poorly written, her answers were actually correct, but the answers agree with how phonics is taught in the schools.ElizabethBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06128884454595561057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-20281579909159508632009-09-23T15:34:24.155-07:002009-09-23T15:34:24.155-07:00ElizabethB wrote to me:
>You can give [the Iowa...ElizabethB wrote to me:<br />>You can give [the Iowa test] on your own in you have a degree (which I would think would come with being a physicist!)<br /><br />Yeah, I have a Ph.D. from Stanford (in physics, of course). I assume I do not have to have an Ed degree?<br /><br />Our kids do take our state’s NCLB test (the California STAR test), since we are signed up with a charter school that supports homeschooling families. That does give them some practice with test-taking, but the STAR test has a very low ceiling – it is meant mainly to catch the kids who are way below the norm. And, some of the questions on the STAR (they release some questions from past years) are not very well constructed.<br /><br />Our kids always score “advanced,” but that really does not tell you much, except that they paid attention during the test.<br /><br />DavePhysicistDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11111405959451703182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-14564864079415872192009-09-23T15:23:21.752-07:002009-09-23T15:23:21.752-07:00RMD wrote to me:
>So I'm guessing that we c...RMD wrote to me:<br />>So I'm guessing that we can achieve extraordinary things without having a natural "gift" in whatever area of study, but to reach the top of the heap, we need both because it just gets so competitive.<br /><br />Yeah. People do of course do differ in innate ability; presumably this is partly genetic. <br /><br />I have a friend in her late thirties who has a “learning disability,” probably due to oxygen deprivation during birth. She is barely able to read at a first-grade level, and can only do very simple arithmetic (and both of those skills are due to many years of hard work by herself and her mother). She could never learn calculus.<br /><br />Part of what does bother me about the “giftedness” meme is that it seems to ignore the enormous amount of hard work that even someone like Mozart or Michael Phelps had to put in to achieve what they achieved. No doubt Phelps and Mozart were born with greater talent in their fields than most of us have, and their innate talent probably also helped motivate them to put in all the work that they put in. However, their talent would have amounted to very little had they not put in enormous amounts of effort. And, if most of us put in that kind of effort in their fields, yeah, we’d probably be pretty good, too, even though not at their level.<br /><br />I think way too often there is a “Well-I-just-wasn’t-born-with-a-talent-for-that” attitude that is used to excuse not making a serious effort at math, expository writing, etc. That can cause people of normal, or even superior, innate intelligence to end up performing way below their potential.<br /><br />Thanks for your suggestions on Mozart: child prodigies have always intrigued me. I don’t expect my kids to be Mozart (in fact, they’re already too old – his musical ability at a very young age was beyond theirs today). But it is interesting to explore what it takes to reach truly exceptional levels of achievement.<br /><br />DavePhysicistDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11111405959451703182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-21002588755142706922009-09-23T11:06:29.217-07:002009-09-23T11:06:29.217-07:00Dave-
We homeschool, too.
I give my daughter the...Dave-<br /><br />We homeschool, too.<br /><br />I give my daughter the IOWA test every year, currently 1 grade level above her grade level. Eventually, I may move up to 2 or 3 grade levels above.<br /><br />You can give it on your own in you have a degree (which I would think would come with being a physicist!)<br /><br />I like giving in myself because I can see which questions she misses and why.<br /><br />For example, on the 1st grade test last year, she did better on the reading comprehension questions for longer, harder stories that she found more interesting than the shorter, easier stories that she found boring! I would never have figured that out if she took it with someone else. This year, before the test, I told her about the importance of reading even the boring stories closely and answering the boring questions well. (The stories were a bit better this year, but still a bit stupid and well below her reading level.)ElizabethBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06128884454595561057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-64209995049217816902009-09-23T08:26:46.970-07:002009-09-23T08:26:46.970-07:00"However, I am a bit skeptical of the whole “..."However, I am a bit skeptical of the whole “giftedness” meme. It seems to me that Mozart may truly have been gifted in some sense that normal human beings are not. But I am not sure that I would use a special term for kids who are clearly well above average academically but not obviously beyond the normal range of variation in the way that Mozart was."<br /><br />You should take a look at "Talent is Overrated". Scholars have looked at Mozart's life and it seems to follow almost all great performers: tons of time practicing with outstanding teachers and a passion for whatever they were doing (see also "The Talent Code" book)<br /><br />Mozart's dad was the preeminent music teacher of the day. Many of Mozart's early works were "rewritten" in his dad's hand. By the time he was in his early 20s, he had been writing music in some form for 20 years .. . the amount of time it takes for an expert to start contributing to his/her own field. <br /><br />Can everyone be a Mozart? I read somewhere that in the world swimming finals, there are all types of body shapes in the races leading up to the finals, but by the finals, they all have a body shape like Michael Phelps. So I'm guessing that we can achieve extraordinary things without having a natural "gift" in whatever area of study, but to reach the top of the heap, we need both because it just gets so competitive.RMDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08625944233681296812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-30082723492498937732009-09-23T03:01:38.680-07:002009-09-23T03:01:38.680-07:00SusanS wrote to me:
>I'm sure you know how ...SusanS wrote to me:<br />>I'm sure you know how much aggravation you have saved yourself in homeschooling.<br /><br />Yeah, I think so. Four years ago, I ran into the son of some friends of ours shortly after his school was out: he was then in second grade. He was looking kind of down, and I mentioned to him that he looked rather tired.<br /><br />He replied, “Yeah, I’m tired of spending the whole day listening to stuff I already know!”<br /><br />I’ve known him since he was four: a bright kid, well-behaved, serious. His parents are well-educated and involved. <br /><br />He gets good grades, of course, because he is bright and wants to please adults.<br /><br />But he is still clearly not challenged. I think he is growing resigned to it and has just decided that this is one of the many strange things that adults impose upon children.<br /><br />It kind of breaks my heart: his parents and I do keep exchanging information, and they do, to some degree, “afterschool” him. But, they cannot figure out how to get the school to challenge him.<br /><br />I suppose this is a rather familiar story to everyone here.<br /><br />Yeah, I am glad my kids have never had to deal with that (although I had to myself as a child – one reason I am sympathetic to this kid now).<br /><br />Thanks again for the info on testing.<br /><br />DavePhysicistDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11111405959451703182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-13591771735196206252009-09-22T16:16:20.701-07:002009-09-22T16:16:20.701-07:00Dave,
We have kids all over the map here at KTM. ...Dave,<br /><br />We have kids all over the map here at KTM. My oldest is special ed, and now I'm gearing up for all of the "Where's he going to college?" questions. I know I'm going to enjoy those at least as much as I enjoy standardized test results coming in the mail with "ACADEMIC WARNING" all over them. <br /><br />I think the problem is when your kid falls out of the curriculum. No one blinked at my oldest being 2+ years behind other kids. They dealt with it. Of course, it helps to have the ADA in your back pocket.<br /><br />But, when your kid is 2+ years ahead of the curriculum, they often act as though the problem is yours when it really is only about appropriate placement. I'm sure you know how much aggravation you have saved yourself in homeschooling.<br /><br />To add to what Vicki said--the 4 universities with talent searches do give a lot of info back for the $30-$40 they add to the cost of the test. They also show you where your child ranked with other same age children taking the test that day in each subject, which would be a higher level group, not the general population.<br /><br />It helped to know what the average scores were for each age group, too. I believe Northwestern had told me that the average 13-year old ACT reading score was 19, and the average math score was 17, so my son treated it as a goal to beat those averages. <br /><br />SusanSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-8246896854550564122009-09-22T14:26:26.930-07:002009-09-22T14:26:26.930-07:00Thanks, Vicky, that’s helpful information.
As I s...Thanks, Vicky, that’s helpful information.<br /><br />As I suggested in my comment to SteveH, I am struggling a bit in interactions in the real world with the fact that my kids are accelerated well beyond grade level, even thoughI know that does not make them geniuses. If you say, “My kid is a fourth-grader, but he performs at an eighth-grade level according to standardized tests,” that sounds like you’re bragging (and it doesn’t help any in talking to other parents to say that the eighth-grade work is so dumbed down that bright fourth-graders *should* be able to do it!).<br /><br />And, of course, we are not just blindly doing some upper-grade-level curriculum, since the main reason we are homeschooling is to *avoid* the public-school textbooks and curriculum.<br /><br />Anyway, thanks for the info.<br /><br />DavePhysicistDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11111405959451703182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-46557357863206635652009-09-22T07:39:28.826-07:002009-09-22T07:39:28.826-07:00Dave, I read this long thread about out of level t...Dave, I read this long thread about out of level testing and wanted to chime it. You mentioned you are a homeschooler and this works to your advantage. Check out Center for Talent Development website at Northwestern University. As a homeschooler, you just nominate and certify your own child as being qualifed to take the appropriate standardized tests. I'm not looking at the website right now but your options are something like this:<br /><br />Grades 3-6 Explore Test (a grade 8 test)<br /><br />Grades 6-9 ACT (with or w/o writing)<br /><br />Grades 6-8 SAT (writing req'd)<br /><br />I really recommend signing up through this program. The testing centers are the same as for the high school kids, but they put all the young testers in the same room, they have specially identifiable registration forms, etc. Then CTY provides you with not only the scores, but some great information as to how to use them, whether your child might benefit eventually from grade acceleration or early entrance to high school, etc. And it's not much more expensive than just registering for the tests by themselves.<br /><br />I can't stress enough that it's great to use this program rather than wandering around, on the internet, at the high schools or whatever, trying to do it yourself.<br /><br />As an example, I registered my older son (now a junior) for the following:<br /><br />Explore-grades 5 and 6 (through CTY)<br />ACT-grades 7/8 and 9 (w/o writing) (through CTY)<br /><br />SAT-grade 10 (not through CTY b/c he was too old, but registration directly through the College Board website)<br /><br />PSAT-grades 9 and 10 (through his school, they let you register if they had extra tests).<br /><br />I wanted him to do the SAT at least once prior to junior/senior year so he could see the writing. It was by far his worst part. Same with the AP test he took last year. <br /><br />I highly recommend this approach! We have not used any prep material at all; he's taken them cold. But that by itself is good preparation I think.<br /><br />Plus, as I mentioned on an earlier thread, the first time he took the ACT he only got through half of the reading section and we discovered he had a visual processing problem. One year of vision therapy followed. The next time, voila, made it all the way through and did very well. Because it only appeared during an intensive test of long duration, we would never have found this otherwise!VickyShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01379636377049707525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-54282477898110232192009-09-21T19:38:37.673-07:002009-09-21T19:38:37.673-07:00"I hope it is clear that I am not claiming th..."I hope it is clear that I am not claiming that my kids are 'gifted,'"<br /><br />KTM advocates for kids at all levels. If I recall, we have had discussions about how some remedial math programs are so much better than the fuzzy G&T programs. At our school, they use phonics as a remedial tool.<br /><br />I have caught myself at times downplaying the abilities of my son. There is also a meme that parents shouldn't try to make their kids into super students. There is also a meme that says that you need to let kids be kids. You don't have to apologize here for expecting the most from your kids and pushing to get it, at whatever level they are at.<br /><br />I think most of us at KTM believe that if you fix the problems of curriculum, teaching methods, and expectations, the issues of G&T would be minimized and everyone will have access to a good education.SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-14494670993387449812009-09-21T18:18:17.485-07:002009-09-21T18:18:17.485-07:00SusanS, SteveH, and concernedCTparent,
Thanks for...SusanS, SteveH, and concernedCTparent,<br /><br />Thanks for your information on the SAT and the SCAT tests.<br /><br />It sounds as if my own thoughts about our kids – the SCAT test in fifth grade and the SAT in eighth grade – are not far out of line with what some people here have actually done.<br /><br />By the way, I hope it is clear that I am not claiming that my kids are “gifted,” much less geniuses in some sense. They are scoring well beyond grade level, and, since we are homeschooling, I am concerned about testing issues and interested to know others’ experience. <br /><br />However, I am a bit skeptical of the whole “giftedness” meme. It seems to me that Mozart may truly have been gifted in some sense that normal human beings are not. But I am not sure that I would use a special term for kids who are clearly well above average academically but not obviously beyond the normal range of variation in the way that Mozart was.<br /><br />Of course, I think that even average students should be taught in a way and exposed to material that most Americans would dub fit only for “gifted” children…<br /><br />DavePhysicistDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11111405959451703182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-63596979432646028552009-09-21T09:37:51.835-07:002009-09-21T09:37:51.835-07:00RMD- ITBS (Iowa Test of Basic Skills) is pretty p...RMD- ITBS (Iowa Test of Basic Skills) is pretty popular. Catherine has used this. It's a nationally normed test that is used by many private schools and homeschoolers. It would at a minimum provide a baseline that if administered regularly would gauge growth in particular areas (assuming the ceiling isn't too low- you may consider starting grade level(s) higher).concernedCTparenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09755180042426047454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-58489215936729608172009-09-21T09:33:30.621-07:002009-09-21T09:33:30.621-07:00"I've had to pull out those scores a few ..."I've had to pull out those scores a few times to advocate for him."<br /><br />Good point. It helped that I had the SCAT results when my son came back to our public schools in 6th grade. It helped him skip 6th grade EM!<br /><br /><br />"...overthink certain questions ..."<br /><br />If I could see the actual test, I could tell right away. It could also signal a big gap.<br /><br /><br />I've also gotten funny reactions (from parents too) becuase I've shown concern even though he is a top student. I once had to rely on one of their arguments about meeting the needs of ALL students. I can just imagine the reaction I would get if the school (or other parents) knew that I was going to have him take the SAT in 8th grade.SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-44772416925245133102009-09-21T08:48:37.951-07:002009-09-21T08:48:37.951-07:00Steve,
The only reason I even decided on taking t...Steve,<br /><br />The only reason I even decided on taking the ACT was because my son's state test score percentile in math was lower than kids two or three years behind him. What annoyed me was that I knew that they made placement decisions based on those percentiles. His reading was all over the place in grade school, but seemed rather high in middle school. Still, it dropped quite a bit on the last one. <br /><br />Of course, everyone tried to reassure me, but I felt like I could have been told that nope, he didn't do as well as we like to see, so he's going back to the lower class. He did make the 95th percentile which I normally wouldn't have cared about, but I later found out about kids that made the 99th percentile who weren't in pre-algebra yet. <br /><br />And even still, I got pushback for doing it. One math teacher said with a rather cold tone, "Why would you want to do that?" Yet, in gifted magnet schools 2/3rds or more of the kids are expected to take the ACT/SAT throughout middle school. <br /><br />Yet, I've had to pull out those scores a few times to advocate for him. First with the private school we were considering for him, and later with the high school for taking honors bio early. They don't have a ceiling like the state tests, and so they seem to garner more respect.<br /><br />I do think that bright kids often overthink certain questions on these state tests. They think they're being tricked because the question seems to easy. <br /><br />SusanSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-32232171740630259432009-09-21T07:34:11.418-07:002009-09-21T07:34:11.418-07:00to one of SteveH's points . . . are there good...to one of SteveH's points . . . are there good standardized tests that we can give our kids to determine where they are on the spectrum, and address any weak points?RMDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08625944233681296812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-1892232301864882722009-09-21T07:02:48.620-07:002009-09-21T07:02:48.620-07:00"...it may be quite a wake-up call!"
Ou..."...it may be quite a wake-up call!"<br /><br />Our problem is that my son gets top grades at school in reading (whatever the heck that is) and language arts (same), but his state standardized test scores don't reflect that in the verbal section. I've seen sample questions and they don't look difficult to me. I talked with the principal at my son's school and she didn't think there was any problem at all. (He's a top student.) She thought that maybe any discrepancy had to do with the writing portion. That's OK? Of course, his test and grades are somewhere, but we can't see them. Great feedback loop. <br /><br />I assume that they won't let parents see the test because they want to use the same questions many times. Actually, this is one of the reasons why my son's school hides big tests away in portfolios, never to come home. I don't understand this. Back when I taught college math and CS, I always created new tests. After each test, they would be graded and handed back permanently at the next class.<br /><br /><br />On top of this, the school (and the state) says that parents can use the results of state testing to help their kids. How? Tell my son to get better grades? Obviously, the school doesn't want to admit that there is a disconnect between what they are teaching and what is being tested. What makes it worse is that the state tests are so simple. Maybe something else is going on, but I can't figure it out.<br /><br /><br />I have a question that I think was answered before. Do high schools send the results of all state testing along with the grades and class rank to colleges?<br /><br /><br /><br />OK. Let me rant a little again about the problem of statistics hiding problems. Some think that individual cases are just anecdotes to be rejected out-of-hand. That's only if you are trying to make sweeping generalizations. However, problems to be solved are not statistical problems. There are many different problems that can interact in complex ways. It is difficult or impossible to separate the problems statistically. Let's just say that I've seen few statistical studies that are good at isolating individual problems.<br /><br />When you study individual cases, you have a chance to identify specific problems. If I got to see my son's actual test, I might determine that there is no real problem, or it might lead me to understand one specific problem that the school can fix. Anyone who has programmed knows what this is about. You run a program and things go wrong. You don't apply statistics or guess and check (the favorite one of my old students) to fix the program, you select just one wrong number and painstakingly work backwards to the cause. You have to keep doing this over and over and over. <br /><br />In education, many want to study statistics to find a solution. This leads to simple "just one thing" type solutions, like all we need are good teachers. If you work backward from very specific problems, then you are more likely to accurately figure out and fix one thing. <br /><br />When our state does testing in math, it breaks problems into areas like "problem solving". This is turned into a proficiency index. Everything is converted from absolute to relative and the only tool they have for fixing problems is guessing. They actually had parent-teacher meetings at our school to figure out how to improve the school's problem solving proficiency statistic. I would take that number and work backward to the raw data, but nobody knows exactly how that number is calculated. Still, they sit around and figure out how to fix it. Spend more time on problem solving.SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-381304192160549332009-09-21T06:00:19.858-07:002009-09-21T06:00:19.858-07:00He thought he did well, but I never saw the result...<i>He thought he did well, but I never saw the results.</i><br /><br />I wonder if this was because it was through a private school. I received results and comparisons to other students who had taken the test. JHU sends an info packet that helps you understand the scores in a larger context.concernedCTparenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09755180042426047454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-51128826552442971832009-09-21T05:55:53.251-07:002009-09-21T05:55:53.251-07:00I’ve been planning on having our kids take the Hop...<i>I’ve been planning on having our kids take the Hopkins test in fifth grade also. How did it go? Good experience for your kid or miserable? Are you glad you did it?</i><br /><br /><br />Dave, My kids (9, 11) loved the SCAT. They actually described it as fun. My 11 year old said it was so much better than the state standardized tests which she describes as <b>mind-numbingly boring</b>. We plan on doing it again this year except this year the 11 year old will take either the ACT or the SAT instead of the SCAT. Like Steve, we haven't done any of the courses, but plan on taking advantage of some of the local field trips and outings this year if possible. The award ceremony for high honors was motivating for my children (it's nice to be recognized for academic effort/ability) and we met many interesting families at the reception. Since we homeschool, I used this as a baseline to track their growth.concernedCTparenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09755180042426047454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-16721822409559611982009-09-21T05:13:41.651-07:002009-09-21T05:13:41.651-07:00They might have changed their rules, but I believ...They might have changed their rules, but I believe you can sign up your kid at any age. There is advice for when would be the best time, but at this point I don't think they bar you if you think your 12-yr. old is ready for it.<br /><br />You might want to consider grabbing an ACT prep book and just having you child do a few of the subtests. They are very short taken one by one.<br /><br />They are also eye-opening because, like Steve said, no one teaches these things directly. The ACT might be better because it is shorter and seems less "tricky." Fatigue is more significant with the younger child than a high-schooler.<br /><br />Taking the test helped my son because it gave him an insight into what colleges were looking for. They really didn't care about his coloring after all.<br /><br />SusanSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-64913688122029772402009-09-21T05:04:29.048-07:002009-09-21T05:04:29.048-07:00"How did it go?"
The actual process was..."How did it go?"<br /><br />The actual process was kind of weird. We called and set a date with a testing service that was located in an office park up near the mall. It's not like going to a place where there are 50 nervous kids sitting around. The testing service provides tests for all sorts of things. So it's kind of like going to a doctor's appointment. <br /><br />You sit in a waiting room and then someone comes to bring the student to a computer in a cubicle. I forget how long the test was, but it didn't bother my son. He thought he did well, but I never saw the results.<br /><br />To motivate him, we told him that he qualified to take the test based on the regular yearly testing at his (then) priate school. Actually, I found out from another parent because the school had decided to no longer tell parents that their child had qualified, even though the school was supposed to do so. When I asked the headmaster about it, he admitted that it caused them problems. Parents of kids who passed wanted them to accelerate and take the Johns Hopkins classes instead of their regular classes. I told him that the school could do whatever they wanted, but they should always tell the parents about the opportunity.<br /><br />In any case, my son saw it as an honor. Also, if you passed, they hold an awards ceremony in each state for all of those who get in. So, my son passed and went to the ceremony. They gave a few extra awards to those who got the top marks, and then ...what?<br /><br />Well, you get catalogs in the mail. We still get them even though I thought my son had to requalify each year. In fact, I think once they get to 7th grade the CTY requires the kids to take the SAT. <br /><br />Others can give you more details, but the SAT is not tied to schools. We had a thread a while ago about a potential problem if ALL of your SAT test scores are sent to colleges, but I think that they now allow you to send only your best scores.<br /><br />Taking the test was good. It gave him an idea of a test that is different than the yearly state school testing. As for the courses, they are expensive and at his level, my wife and I could supplement just fine. If there was a course that he really, really wanted to take, then we might have considered it.SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-13492529743426120142009-09-20T23:42:02.034-07:002009-09-20T23:42:02.034-07:00SteveH,
I’ve been planning on having our kids tak...SteveH,<br /><br />I’ve been planning on having our kids take the Hopkins test in fifth grade also. How did it go? Good experience for your kid or miserable? Are you glad you did it?<br /><br />You also wrote:<br />>As we all know, there is often little connection between what is taught in class and what is tested on the SAT. One of these areas is critical reading. My son never gets this in school. They sit in circles and discuss books. ("How does the book make you feel?") On the SAT, you have to answer very specific questions. I call it technical reading, and it requires concentration and practice.<br /><br />Yeah, that is one of my concerns and one of the reasons I want them to take the SAT fairly early – it may be quite a wake-up call! (Or maybe it won’t be so bad – anyway, it would be good to know.)<br /><br />Incidentally, there is an old book from Teachers’ College Columbia, still in print, the “McCall-Crabbs Standard Test Lessons in Reading,” that I am finding useful. (It was recommended by a phonics reading specialist, Linda Schrock Taylor, who has been battling for years for phonics – see http://www.lewrockwell.com/taylor/taylor82.html ).<br /><br />The book has over 300 three-minute timed lessons. I have found by experiment that if I have my kids do one or two of these each day for a couple weeks before a standardized test, then their score is a good deal higher on the test.<br /><br />However, I am not sure if this will transfer to the SAT.<br /><br />DavePhysicistDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11111405959451703182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-16736096106731865032009-09-20T23:20:05.560-07:002009-09-20T23:20:05.560-07:00I guess I should have been more specific.
I’m fam...I guess I should have been more specific.<br /><br />I’m familiar with the SAT site, but what I wanted to know is how the details work out for “under-age” kids. My recollection was that SAT has a lower age limit of 13, but I occasionally hear of kids much younger who take it. Anyone know how that works out?<br /><br />Also, as I recall, most high-school kids just take the SAT at their own high school. As I recall, a school is not obligated to let anyone take the SAT who is not their own student, and of course “under-age” kids will not normally be high-school students. Anyone knows how that works out? Are high schools quite open about this sort of thing? Or, are there SAT test sites different from high schools?<br /><br />Or, am I completely misunderstanding the whole procedure? (It has been over thirty years since I took the SAT myself!)<br /><br />DavePhysicistDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11111405959451703182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-18998854767313817532009-09-20T19:19:03.009-07:002009-09-20T19:19:03.009-07:00Others, like Susan, have more experience about th...Others, like Susan, have more experience about this than I have. The only thing I had my son take was the SCAT test required by the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth when he was in 5th grade. We didn't do much with it because the courses were expensive and the only real time to do it was summer. That didn't happen. However, it was good to have him take the test. <br /><br />Since then, I've dropped the ball. He took an after school SSAT course I gave at his school when he was in 6th grade, but he wasn't thrilled about it. He is now in 8th grade and we didn't do anything about these tests last year. Now I have to get him focused on the real goal now.<br /><br />As an engineer, I would like him to look at a college entrance merit function, like the Academic Index, and work backwards. Take your SAT Math and Verbal scores and divide them by 10. Then add in a number that tops off at 80 for your class ranking, which depends on the number of kids in your high school senior class. It's nonlinear. First in class gets an 80, then it drops to maybe 70 between the 10 and 15th place, and then it drops off more gradually after that. Add them all together to get a number with a maximum of 240. I read somewhere that the average for Ivy League colleges is 210. <br /><br />Of course there are many other factors, but this is where the most effort should be placed. My son is mostly focused on his schools grades. I have to get him focused on the other two-thirds of the formula.<br /><br />As we all know, there is often little connection between what is taught in class and what is tested on the SAT. One of these areas is critical reading. My son never gets this in school. They sit in circles and discuss books. ("How does the book make you feel?") On the SAT, you have to answer very specific questions. I call it technical reading, and it requires concentration and practice.<br /><br />I just have to figure out how to add it into what he has to do already. Maybe I can pull out small critical reading pieces rather than tell him to take a whole sample SAT test.SteveHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03956560674752399562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-60735201134254188302009-09-20T15:47:53.334-07:002009-09-20T15:47:53.334-07:00Here it is:
act.org and collegeboard.com. I thin...Here it is:<br /><br />act.org and collegeboard.com. I think the Explore test is at one of them. Explore is mostly used for 8th graders, so it is a good test with no ceiling for upper grade school.<br /><br />Also, check out Northwestern's CTD (Center for Talent Development). They will have the Midwest Talent Search info. There they give advice about when your kid should take what test. For instance, if you kid is hitting the 97th percentile in the 7th grade, they suggest taking the ACT or SAT. They also give ranges of scores for kids, so you have an idea what to expect and what is good for a kid that age.<br /><br />Also, Johns Hopkins and Duke have talent searches. They probably have tips and advice at their sites, too.<br /><br />SusanSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7691251033406320222.post-70850637145954935422009-09-20T15:38:54.872-07:002009-09-20T15:38:54.872-07:00PhysiscistDave,
You can go to the College Board s...PhysiscistDave,<br /><br />You can go to the College Board site and sign up for SAT. Google ACT test for that site.<br /><br />The Talent Searches suggest Explore for upper grade school and ACT/SAT for middle school. The ACT has a no-essay version, also. You should be able to sign up at the site. The tests are running all year long at different schools.<br /><br />I had my 7th grader take it twice during the year. We only used prep books, but he got a lot out of it. We just had the scores sent to us since he wasn't going to any college. <br /><br />SusanSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com