Parents
Be pro-active with parents. Don’t wait until complaints hit. People have done a lot of things to involve parents, from math nights to big math carnivals, where the kids teach the activities to the parents. There are letters in the program that go home to parents. In one district, the coordinator ran a six-week course for parents and taught them mathematics, essentially. It depends on what will work with your audience. Teachers need to communicate with parents, making sure that the parents see the math facts practice and that the arithmetic they value is visible.
I'm positive most parents don't know the backpack letters are pre-fab.
math night coming right up
I thought you might like to read these quotes I'm assembling for my upcoming presentation to NCTM in March on parent involvement.
ReplyDeleteThey're from a chapter titled "Parent Involvement: A Dissenting View" in a book whose name I forget right now, but it's at the top of the document linked to above. (The last quote in the document is referenced as "AIT," but it's obviously not from Animals in Translation; it's from a book called Apprenticeship in Thinking by Barbara Rogoff.
My sense is that the current Gestalt of so-called "parent involvement" is flawed. That is, all the ideas that currently come out of the parent-involvement agenda assume that it is the role of schools to educate parents. This was the assumption I took up when I first began researching parent involvement in mathematics.
It's wrong, I'm pretty sure.
"... where the kids teach the activities to the parents."
ReplyDeleteI'm leaning towards complete ignorance, rather than arrogance. Perhaps it's a good dose of each. Ignorance of math and arrogance about their position.
You would think they would say (at the very least) that this is their position about teaching math. They could say that they know that some people have different views, but this is what and how they are going to teach math. Come to the open house if you want to learn more. That would be the honest approach.
It's very telling that they don't even admit that there are VALID opposing opinions. It's very telling that they would stoop to having the kids teach the parents.
"Hi Suzie. What did you do in school today?" "We made some math games for parent math night. My teacher says I did a great job. Are you coming?"
"Teachers need to communicate with parents, making sure that the parents see the math facts practice and that the arithmetic they value is visible."
ReplyDeleteOK. How about putting the parents in charge of testing.
The thing is, it's hard to criticize math night. At least it is for me. I'm not saying math night is valuable. But those teachers put so much work into it. There is a tremendous amount of effort involved and they really do seem to think this is valuable. I remember one math night spending a solid 20 minutes at the 3 little pigs board (we had to come up with stories that had numbers in them). At the time, it didn't occur to me how useless this was and what a waste of time it was. My daughter loved it.
ReplyDeleteThis is a huge event here in Granby and I'd be reviled for complaining. So I don't. But we haven't attended math night in several years. That also puts me in the category of "not supportive."
"But those teachers put so much work into it. There is a tremendous amount of effort involved and they really do seem to think this is valuable."
ReplyDeleteIt all depends on what the purpose is. If the goal is to show parents what is going on in class, that is great. I think, however, that they would not do it if there were no complaints.
But there are two types of complaints. One type complains about understanding what is going on in class and being able to help their kids at home. (This is what Catherine's school would call a VALID concern.) The second type has to do with the program itself; teaching methodology, content, skills, and grade-level expectations. (This is a NON-VALID concern.) Perhaps schools think that parents are just ignorant of the wonderful qualities of their math curriculum. Once they find out the details, then the parents will all get onboard.
Teachers are not that naive. They know what they are doing. It's all PR.
When my son was in first grade and I went to an open house, the teacher brought up www.mathematicallycorrect.com, not the parents; kind of like a preemptive strike. They know what its all about, but they will do what they want, thank you very much. They are the experts. Education is not a democracy.
"This is a huge event here in Granby and I'd be reviled for complaining."
That's the point. There is no process for discussing specific issues or assumptions. Everything is viewed as either supporting or not supporting public schools. You are either for public schools or against public schools. If you don't like the methods, content, or assumptions that the school chooses, then you are against public schools or a non-supportive parent (same thing). Parents may have influence over many things at school, but not the important ones.
After being on several parent-teacher school committees, I know that there is an aura of concern for parental input, but the school and teachers are in charge. Most of the parents on the committees are extremely deferential to the teachers. There is no room for bringing up fundamental issues or assumptions. Even on a 5 year strategic committee I was selected for, basic issues were off the table. They brought in an outside facilitator. They know how to play the game.
Many parents throw up their hands and send their kids to other schools. They wash their hands of the problems. That leaves fewer parents to create a critical mass for change.
Steve, that's a great description.
ReplyDeleteI was invited to one parent teacher committee. It met once. It is possible that it met more than once, but I was not invited back. That was a committee to oversee the implementation of the EM curriculum. I had organized the main protest against the program. They put me on the committee to quell anger at the Bd Meeting.
At our one and only meeting, the rooms was stacked with about 30 vocal proponents of the EM program. We spent our hour or so discussing how best to photocopy the family newsletters from EM, whether or not we should send home the answers to the homework to help parents (they send the answers home), and when to schedule some math nights.
After everyone went around the room to talk about how great this was and how wonderful it will be when parents are onboard with EM, I spoke. I asked about the data gathering that was promised -- how were we going to evaluate the success of the program? What kind of supplementation did they expect? When would the data be available for parents to review?
No one would respond, the meeting ended, and I was never allowed to participate in any committees ever again.
I made this mistake of calling my elected school board representative where I live and complained about Everyday Math. She was a skilled listener and frequently would say OH I AGREE, when I talked about how math should be taught. In the end, she said that Fairfax County's adoption had a caveat that EM needed to be supplemented and this statement was given to all schools who chose to adopt the program. (Schools had a choice of textbooks/programs; they were not forced to use EM). The County of course did not tell how to supplement, nor what materials to be used to supplement, so what you got, within the same school, was different ways of supplementing the program (or not).
ReplyDeleteI made it clear to the Board member that my concern was with the County for adopting such text, not with my daughter's school.
Nevertheless, she contacted the principal of the school to let her know of my conversation. He promptly called me. It didn't click, but he was the one who made the decision to use EM at my daughter's school, so a complaint from a parent on its use was not something he was going to like. And he didn't like it. I told him my concerns with the program and he countered with "But the test scores of schools that use it are great!" and the usual fol de rol.
After my conversation with him, he then called my wife and said "I thought we were friends!" Things were never the same with the principal and us, despite my wife's attempts to smooth things over. He was very cold to us up until the day my daughter graduated. Could have been worse, I know.
Nevertheless, she contacted the principal of the school to let her know of my conversation. He promptly called me.
ReplyDeleteyup
every word we've ever uttered to our school board has gone straight to the superintendent
this is why anonymous posts on listservs are an excellent concept
ReplyDeleteIt's funny, though.
ReplyDeleteSo far almost no one here has worked up the nerve to make anonymous posts on our listserv.
I haven't done it because I feel I shouldn't.
I've staked out a This is my name; This is my position approach.
I don't know whether it's a good idea to do things this way, but....there it is.
"I thought we were friends!"
ReplyDeleteWow!
This is what it's all about. Personal. This is their turf. They are the experts. They know best. They can't even see it as a difference of opinion. That would open up everything to debate.
I have had a couple of good discussions with one of our board members (a parent). Her (and others) position is that there are problems, but they are working on them. You have to be part of the (their?) solution, or your part of the problem. ... as long as you don't question basic assumptions of methods, curriculum, and expectations.
You have to be part of the (their?) solution, or your part of the problem. ... as long as you don't question basic assumptions of methods, curriculum, and expectations.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you don't agree with them, they won't like you. And they won't be your friend.
They've spent too much time on the playground.
Of course, the implied threat is also that if you don't agree they will hurt your child. Isn't that at the bottom of all this?
Don’t wait until complaints hit.
ReplyDeleteThat's the line I find funny. Those pesky complaints.
Along the lines of what Barry said, I think a lot of parents worry about hurting their child by complaining. I know I do so I am careful to pick my battles.
OK. How about putting the parents in charge of testing.
ReplyDeleteyeah, well, that's already happened around here
still waiting on our ITBS results
But we haven't attended math night in several years. That also puts me in the category of "not supportive."
ReplyDeleteright
I met a lady on the train last night whose husband teaches at Bronx Science (and who actively dislikes her 6th grader's math curriculum, which I happen to know is fuzzy - TERC, I believe. Apparently they're teaching trig in 6th grade.)
She told me that her husband had taught in schools with disadvantaged kids and the parents "weren't involved" etc.
I said, "Those parents aren't involved because they've been so mistreated over a decade of having their kids in the public schools that they're either on strike or flat-out defeated."
That's the thing about Christian's mom: she was still alive and kicking when he was in high school.
She definitely gave as good as she got.
Hanging out with Christian while having my own kid in school has produced a Complete and Total Paradigm Shift around here.
ReplyDelete"Black parents don't attend back to school night" has become "black parents have had it up to here with back to school night and all the rest of it."
Speaking of black parents, my copy of Black Students/White Teachers arrived today.
ReplyDeleteThat should be fun.
No!
ReplyDeleteIt's Black Students. Middle Class Teachers.
from the jacket:
ReplyDelete"Is the future of the Black race in the hands of White female teachers?"
Not coincidentally, this happens to be my question, too.
Only I would omit the word "black."
Have I mentioned the fact that Irvington hires NO MEN AT ALL UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES?
My sister was hilarious this weekend.
ReplyDeleteShe was a high school teacher at the age of 22.
She said, "I thought the parents were idiots. I thought I knew more about their kids than they did, because I was closer in age. I used to give them advice on how to raise their kids."
She said she that looking back she can't believe the things she said to parents and thought about parents.
Ed told me today that the age of the teachers is his main problem with the school. He teaches college; our middle school looks like the campus of NYU - and these people have complete and total authority over us and our kid.
Their word is Law; we have no means of debate & no appeals process.
Just this lowly blog.....
And of course they've got the Irvington teacher's union making public threats to sue.
ReplyDeleteummm....
ReplyDeleteone thing I've learned?
making idle threats is a big fat mistake
But there are two types of complaints. One type complains about understanding what is going on in class and being able to help their kids at home. (This is what Catherine's school would call a VALID concern.) The second type has to do with the program itself; teaching methodology, content, skills, and grade-level expectations. (This is a NON-VALID concern.)
ReplyDeleteNow that is darned succinct!
Perhaps schools think that parents are just ignorant of the wonderful qualities of their math curriculum.
ReplyDeleteYou see this everywhere in the edusphere.
Explanation is conflated with persuasion.
Always.
The administration is still taking this tack with the bond vote.
Both the superintendent and the high school principal told reporters that the "books or bats" voters "didn't understand" the bond.
If we had understood it, we would have voted yes.
After everyone went around the room to talk about how great this was and how wonderful it will be when parents are onboard with EM, I spoke. I asked about the data gathering that was promised -- how were we going to evaluate the success of the program? What kind of supplementation did they expect? When would the data be available for parents to review?
ReplyDeleteNo one would respond, the meeting ended, and I was never allowed to participate in any committees ever again.
yup
that's a problem alright
hence this lowly blog!
if the school won't discuss curriculum and pedagogy with us, I'll discuss it on the web.
possibly my favorite moments thus far are the 3 advisories I've received on "inflammatory language."
Parents are simply terrified of people hurting their child.
ReplyDeleteAnd I mean terrified.
oh my gosh!
ReplyDeletethat reminds me!
During our meeting with the math chair (I think ktm had crashed at the time) the chair tried to tell us that anything I say about other parents is "hearsay."
I told her I thought we had agreed she wouldn't use the term "hearsay" any more. (Too lazy to link at the moment.)
She drew a blank.
This time I persisted.
I said, "Parents talk to me; parents send me emails. I know their views." (I do.)
She said, again, that I could not speak about any other parents' views, complaints, or experiences.
etc.
I said, "Why can't you reach out to parents and ask them their thoughts?"
She said, "Parents have to call me."
I said, "Why can't you be proactive? Why can't you reach out to parents?"
She said, "Parents have to call me if they have a problem. You can't speak for them."
I said, "Parents are afraid to complain."
She said, again "Parents have to come to me if they have a problem." (of course, I happen to know that parents have come to her - probably a whole lot more parents than I realize)
So then I upped the ante.
I said, "Parents have told me, 'The district will crush you' and 'The district will hurt your child.'"
She blew up.
"That's ridiculous! That's ridiculous! Parents have to come to me! Parents have to come to me if they have a complaint! That's ridiculous!"
She was furious, agitated, almost beside herself.
She kept going, repeating herself, until finally she said, "Parents have to defend their children!"
direct quote
Parents have to defend their children.
This person is the calculus teacher, by the way.
ReplyDeleteTHE calculus teacher.
ReplyDeleteAs in the ONLY calculus teacher.
All of this effort, all of this bloodshed, all of this Magnificent Obsession with Calculus in High School -
ReplyDeleteIt has all been for nought.
I'm joking.
ReplyDeleteIt has not all been for naught.
She is the calculus teacher, however.
Ed says that if you listen to people they'll tell you what they mean.
ReplyDeleteSo I followed up on our meeting with an email to the principal that included the following lines:
ReplyDeleteOn a far less pleasant note, I feel I must put this on the record.
I’m concerned by Ms. P’s agitated remark that “Parents have to defend their children.”
Sad, but funny. "Parents have to come to me if they have a complaint"
ReplyDeleteBut if we come to you with our complaints, we are helicopters, we don't understand, or we don't support education.
Just once I want an administrator or teacher to consider the possibility that a parent could be right. Just to open their mind to the possiblity.
That's pretty much all that I'm asking.
That's pretty much all that I'm asking.
ReplyDeleteWell that's the problem!
You're asking way too little!
Was it Abraham Lincoln who had the idea, or was said to have the idea, that when you face an intractable problem the solution is to make it bigger?
ReplyDeleteOr am I hallucinating?
ReplyDeleteok, back again
ReplyDeleteI must add that in fact no one at the school has "hurt my child."
The reality has been exactly the opposite.
But....I think the "hurt my child" worry is actually a bit more complex and serious.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that we worry there will come a time when we will need to "defend our child" and we won't have access, won't be listened to, etc.
In other words, parents probably understand that in the day to day no one is going to hurt their child.
It's the non-day to day that haunts us.
"Parents have to defend their children."
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what this means. They don't care, so it's up to the parents to make a big stink?
I talked in the past about how my wife and I felt when our son started Kindergarten. We were very careful about what we said and how we presented ourselves to the teachers. I joined the PTO and a couple of parent-teacher groups. I went to all of the open houses. We were model parents. They thought we were model parents, until we put our son into a private school, I guess.
Still, I heard stories from the teachers about "those" parents. You know the stories. Parents who are not helpful. Parents who complain. Parents who want to make life too easy for little Johnnie and Suzie. I called them preemptive strikes.
Then, there were the other stories. When our son tested at a third grade reading level in Kindergarten, they didn't want to tell us. (It was no surprise to us because we taught him phonics.) Of course, we wanted to know exactly what kind of testing was being done and put into his permanent record. We asked questions. What is this testing? Why are you doing it? What does it mean?
They immediately thought we were going to start asking what they were going to for our son. Actually, we weren't. Out came the story about how the teacher has had lots of kids in Kindergarten who could read encyclopedias, but they didn't know a single word they were reading. We backed off, but we were thinking, "That was weird"! Schools and teachers are very defensive. But, you know, the best defense is a good offense.
Parents either get completely fed up and put their kids somewhere else, or they keep quiet and don't make waves. They don't want to become one of "those" parents. They don't want to make life difficult for their kids. It may not be overt, but it's a major driving force. Many parents are quite practical. They know that the school won't change, so they don't try and do the best they can.
There were only a very few parents I knew or heard about who had the temerity to "do a Catherine", but all of them had valid complaints. If there were true "helicopter parents" who just wanted to make life easy for their kids, I never met them. I'm sure a few exist, and their stories make great fodder for keeping other parents in line.
It simply comes down to this:
They're in charge and you're not.
After extensive consistent evidence of my daughter's difficulties in learning (corroborated by a math teacher at my daughter's school who was recommended to us by her school to hire as a tutor, which we did), the principal told my wife and I that we tended to worry too much about our daughter. (This was before I had complained about EM to the Board Member, so he still liked us). So we were pigeonholed as worry-warts. Told we were imagining things.
ReplyDelete"So we were pigeonholed as worry-warts. Told we were imagining things."
ReplyDeleteMy son's principal actually patted my knee and told me "I think mom is making too much out of this." I also had a teacher tell me, "I was told by the office to tell you this gently."
Yesterday both my sons brought home a parent survey. It is due the 25th. Do I dare say how I truly feel about the school knowing that I'm classified as a worry-wart?
Unfortunately, I feel my children have been pigeon-holed as well. Before the winter break, my kindergartener's teacher told me my son was asking too many questions. "He seems to need reassurance. I'm not sure what to do with him because I've never encountered this situation." She is a first year teacher. When I told her that I do not see this a home, she said, "Really? That is interesting."
--PaulaV
Still, I heard stories from the teachers about "those" parents. You know the stories. Parents who are not helpful. Parents who complain. Parents who want to make life too easy for little Johnnie and Suzie. I called them preemptive strikes.
ReplyDeletegosh, this is funny!
I've been told, by an employee of the district, that "the administration hates the parents."
That's a quote.
(And, btw, I was told this back before Ed and I got activated.)
I've also been told that our superintendent has said, "The parents run the district."
I speculate that one of her goals may be to counter and block what she sees as illegitimate (invalid) parent power, but I have no way of knowing this.
Being part of a district in which the administration "hates" the parents isn't a good thing.
However, being part of a district in which the administration hates the parents does mean that the natural inclination to divide people into the GOOD and the BAD has been checked by a global perception that parents are a pain in the tuchus.
You always hear talk about "pushy parents," but you never really hear talk about good and bad parents, and district talk about pushy parents isn't venomous.
If anything it's good-natured.
In my experience, and I've heard the Pushy Parent narrative a zillion times, there seems to be a District perception that a parent is a parent. An Irvington parent is or easily could be a pushy parent.
hmmm.....so what am I saying here?
I seem to be saying that the Pushy Parent narrative is an objective description of reality.
!
Anyway, given the fact that schools aren't democracies, it's probably just as well for school employees to view parents as generically pushy.
A District perception of parents as "generically pushy" is a check on District power.
ReplyDeletean informal check
ReplyDeleteI should stress this.
ReplyDeleteWe haven't experienced the slightest hint of reprisals directed against any of our 3 kids because of our politics, and we don't expect to.
I don't remotely "blame" parents for fearing reprisals.
A responsible parent must ask himself whether in pressing for systemic reform in his school system he is risking his child's welfare in any way.
Furthermore, the secrecy in which our public schools operate means that no parent can answer this question.
We are locked out of our children's schools literally and figuratively.
All I can say is that I know for a fact that Christopher is happy as a clam in his school. He likes his teachers; he's interested in his coursework; he has lots of friends.
This winter he went out for track (we have a winter track team); this spring he'll go out for tennis.
If that's a reprisal, I'll take it.
Jimmy's and Andrew's teachers are saints.
When our son tested at a third grade reading level in Kindergarten, they didn't want to tell us. (It was no surprise to us because we taught him phonics.) Of course, we wanted to know exactly what kind of testing was being done and put into his permanent record. We asked questions. What is this testing? Why are you doing it? What does it mean?
ReplyDeleteThis is the issue.
Stonewalling & spin.
You probably remember that I requested subscores on last year's ELA exam for gender and race.
District answer: subscrores are "unavailable."
I'm still mulling that one over. Obviously it requires a response, but I'm waiting for inspiration to strike.
It simply comes down to this:
ReplyDeleteThey're in charge and you're not.
That is the heart of the matter.
In our case - probably in everyone's case - the authoritarian nature of public schools is made more oppressive by the fact that we're running up against the demographic reality of middle-aged teachers leaving the system.
Thus we have very young people, with limited life experience and in many or most cases an ideological take on their profession, being handed absolute power over the children of people old enough to be their parents.
We have wrong sociology.
So we were pigeonholed as worry-warts.
ReplyDeleteblech
"It simply comes down to this:
ReplyDeleteThey're in charge and you're not."
Yes, like it or not.
How can secrecy and wrong sociology bode well for a good school climate?
Both my kids seem happy at school. I do not fear reprisals on them per se, but I do fear indifference.
--PaulaV
"They thought we were model parents, until we put our son into a private school, I guess."
ReplyDeleteI'll bet they attributed your departure to a prejudice against public education. I can't imagine they view it as an indication that there is something wrong with their curriculum.
As for testing in 3rd grade in K, I'll never know. We no longer test to see where a student is at. We only test to see if they meet grade level, not how far above grade level.
My 5th Grader scored a perfect 400 on the state test last year and reads 15 hours a day -- during recess, during math class, on the bus . . . she is "meeting grade level expectations." I had her tested on my own and she is reading at a collegiate level. But she is still plodding through the 5th grade reading anthology at the same pace as every other kid in the school.
So much for differentiation.
We no longer test to see where a student is at. We only test to see if they meet grade level, not how far above grade level.
ReplyDeleteJust one of those Golden Benefits of NCLB!
(I CONTINUE to support NCLB....though I'd like to see some significant changes in the law and I would DEFINITELY like to see the notion that white schools are OK while black schools are not die a horrible death ASAP.)
So we were pigeonholed as worry-warts. Told we were imagining things.
ReplyDeleteAND
My son's principal actually patted my knee and told me "I think mom is making too much out of this." I also had a teacher tell me, "I was told by the office to tell you this gently."
good lord