We had divided duties tonight. The 7th grade transition meeting and a meeting with the new assistant superintendent for curriculum were scheduled for the same night (why?) so Ed and I had to go our separate ways.
Both meetings were a vast improvement over anything we've experienced in this district ever.
It was amazing.
Ed went to the meeting with the assistant superintendent.
He sums up the theme of the meeting as:
I came to Irvington for the excellent schools, and I'm disappointed.
("I'm furious and I voted against the fields because I'm furious" appears to have been a subtext.)
I think Trailblazers is gone.
That's Ed's sense.
Parents in K-5 are beyond enraged. They are openly enraged; they are incensed; they are not mincing words. (I would like to be physically present to witness such a thing once in my life.)
department of corrections: This passage gives the wrong impression. These parents are highly articulate professionals who are accustomed to, as Ed puts it "presenting themselves in public." All of them are capable of containing emotion while expressing strong views.
This is a skill I lack. I've been sitting alone in a room writing for so long that I simply have not developed an ability to speak passionately, persuasively, and extemporaneously in public.
These are parents I've never met & may not even know by face.
The curriculum advisor said the math wars are like the reading wars; they've just about run their course.
"New textbooks will be coming out."
That's what she said. (paraphrasing)
New textbooks will be coming out.
next up: balanced math!
New textbooks coming out is fine.
Actually, it's great.
But the fact is, we lost the reading wars, didn't we?
We're all sitting around thinking we won; we're thinking common sense and peer-reviewed science prevailed.
They didn't.
Whole language was repackaged as balanced literacy, and the ed schools and their associated NGOs went on their merry way.
The reports I have from parents at Dows Lane are that we are using balanced literacy; we have hired a Dows Lane administrator, educated at Columbia, who has a "specialty" in balanced literacy; we have high rates of dyslexia; we have numerous "reading specialists" on staff; and we are refusing to pay for Windward School although we are apparently recommending to parents that they spend the $40,000/year it takes to send their kids to the school.
We can't teach them to read for $20,000/year. No, that takes $40,000.
This is what I'm told.
So. If the math wars are going to run their course the same way the reading wars ran their course, that's a problem.
I've decided to get out in front of the curve for once in my life and declare myself against balanced math.
There's no reason to wait for new textbooks that will be coming out.
Let's adopt one, two, or all three of the excellent textbooks we have on the market now.
speaking of losing the reading wars...
Some kind of Tri-State Consortium report was presented at the Board meeting, and it's Lucy Calkins all the way.
Irvington is to be Lucy Calkinsized, it seems.
Lucy Calkins.
Godmother of balanced literacy, Lucy Calkins.
It's in the works.
That is a very bad idea.
more tomorrow
The 7th grade transition meeting was great.
Amazing.
With caveats.
what are the excellent texts on the market now?
from NYC HOLD:
The California Department of Education has a careful content-based adoption process for K-8 curricula. Reports may be found through the CDE site for Mathematics Frameworks and Curricular Materials. David Klein at CSU Northridge also has links to Content Review Panel reports on middle school mathematics programs. The official final adoption report of 2001 provides positive reviews of K-8 materials that include for grade school Saxon Math K-6, Sadlier Progress in Mathematics CA Edition K-6, Harcourt Math CA Edition 2002 K-6, Houghton Mifflin Mathematics CA Edition K-5, and Scott Foresman CA Mathematics K-6; for middle school the adopted programs include McDougal Littell Structure and Method (the venerable Dolciani series), and Prentice Hall Pre-Algebra and
In addition to the named programs adopted in California the Singapore Primary Mathematics K-6 curriculum is uniformly recommended by subject matter experts, and also the Singapore New Elementary Mathematics grades 7-10 series is of high quality.
"Let's adopt one, two, or all three of the excellent textbooks we have on the market now."
ReplyDeleteWhat do you have in mind other than Saxon and perhaps SM?
I have a vague familiarity with Harcourt (middle grades) and liked what I saw. But my knowledge is very superficial.
I once wrote the HOLD group for advice in this respect but got a non-responsive response.
Apparently Sadlier Oxford's series is great. I've never seen it; I think it's John Hoven who likes it.
ReplyDeleteHang on.
Let me check.
Also I think Engelmann's K-6 math program, Connecting Math Concepts, is probably fantastic.
Ken knows it. (I think he's using it.)
I can't find the recommendation (I have a memory the person said the Sadlier series might be even better than Saxon.)
ReplyDeleteHere's a line from the WEEKLY STANDARD article:
Parents are reaching for their own solutions, teaching drill-and-basics-heavy Singapore Math, Saxon Math, and Sadlier-Oxford Progress in Mathematics after hours and trading the books on eBay.
"New textbooks will be coming out."
ReplyDeleteWow! That does sound very promising!
I’m following your story & comments very closely, including about the excellent texts, in case there’s any crack in my school’s seemingly hard line on adopting TERC or Growing with Math.
Tex
ReplyDeleteWe should go offline & talk.
It's important for other districts to follow events in Irvington.
We have a parent uprising.
I suspect that the key for you is to bring home to your district the stark facts of our situation.
Our town, filled with very wealthy parents who strongly support athletics, has just voted down a bond to fund badly needed improvements to, and construction of, athletic fields.
I'm not sure I've made that point clear on ktm2: every parent who voted against the bond - probably every single one - agreed that (most of) the improvements and construction needed to be done.
Our football players are having to be shlepped up to Bedford to play home games!
$19,000 per pupil spending and our football players have to drive 20 miles to play on a decent field.
What curriculum committees throughout Westchester should learn from Irvington is that the adoption of Math Trailblazers led directly to the defeat of a bond proposal for construction that parents agreed was necessary.
The margin of defeat was 25 votes.
Westchester administrators need to ask themselves whether they want to deal with the problems Irvington administrators are dealing with.
Do they want these headaches?
Your story is so encouraging.
ReplyDeleteWith a major bond issue possibly coming up next year to do a badly needed field project, we'll see.
I don't think parents are as fed up. As I've said before, we have high state test scores, we supplement EM extensively, and the program hasn't been in place long enough for kids subjected to EM to get into HS. So far, everyone is claiming success because there's no data yet to the contrary.
But still, I love what is happening in Irvington. Parents can make a difference.
But, why does it have to come down to rioting?
"I've decided to get out in front of the curve for once in my life and declare myself against balanced math."
ReplyDeleteI've seen this for a long time. When there was a mini-uprising of parents over math at the beginning of the year, the discussion quickly headed towards "balance". This makes everyone happy, but nobody is defining balance and nobody is defining understanding. Then, the school goes off and does what it wants. Balance has to do with control. When all else fails, argue for balance.
Actually, our school is probably going to go with S-O Progress in Mathematics, perhaps because it has the least baggage politically. Next, they have to replace the silly Prentice-Hall books they use for 7th and 8th grades.
"(I have a memory the person said the Sadlier series might be even better than Saxon.)"
ReplyDeleteIf I recall correctly (I suppose I should look it up), someone did a comparison between S-O and Saxon (and one other) for 2nd and 5th grades. Saxon came out on top (slightly) for 2nd grade and S-O came out on top (slightly) for 5th grade. I think the review thought that S-O did a little better job with concepts and understanding. My impression was that the differences were slight and that Saxon is still king of mastery. However, both were head and shoulders above the third place finisher.
I haven't studied any of the S-O books. The head of school showed me one (for about a minute) and it seemed much more colorful and busy than Saxon. I am just trusting the word of others that it is better. As I said in the other message, I think that S-O is a sleeper without the political baggage of Saxon and Singapore. Has anyone worked with S-O? Any comments?
I've seen this for a long time. When there was a mini-uprising of parents over math at the beginning of the year, the discussion quickly headed towards "balance."
ReplyDeleteDefinitely.
You've been saying this since we "met."
That's why I'm ahead of the curve.
Balance has to do with control. When all else fails, argue for balance.
ReplyDeleteright
and school personnel define balance
We're going to be looking into the balanced literacy program used here.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to pay $20,000 per pupil to have kids not learning to read.
I don't want to pay ANYTHING to have kids not learning to read.
Steve - where is your other message?
ReplyDeleteI'm going to have to get my hands on a copy of the 5th grade S-O book.
I'm positive Engelmann's series is good - but it doesn't seem to figure in these ratings??
(Have to get to Ken on this one.)
I have one of Engelmann's books, which looks good, but unless you have the teacher's "presentation book" you can't really tell.
ReplyDelete"Steve - where is your other message?"
ReplyDeleteI have to run. My son is taking the SCAT test for JH-CTY this afternoon. I have mixed feelings about this, but we don't have to do anything about it. It's good practice for him.
Good Luck, Steve. My daughter took the SCAT last Saturday. I think it was a good experience for her. It was quick -- two 20 min sessions with a break in between. She actually liked it, but she is very verbal. We got her test results back, even though they said it would be 3 weeks. It is norm referenced and I like that as it's the first real benchmark I have for her. I suppose the fact that she did well is also influencing my opinion.
ReplyDeleteShe's very excited about the course offerings through Johns Hopkins. At this age, I don't know if distance education is really practical, but she likes the possibilities.
Lynn - how old is your daughter??
ReplyDeleteI wonder if I should look into this for comp & reading.
I still haven't got Christopher's ITBS scores back.
Both of my kids participated in the Johns Hopkins distance learning accelerated math program. They were in 2nd and 4th grades at the time. It was not very successful for us. Even though they're both very good math students, they needed a teacher. The program provides tutors who can be contacted by phone during certain hours, or by e-mail, but that's just not the same as having a teacher available on the spot. When you don't understand what the computer wants you to do, it can be very frustrating.
ReplyDelete--DaleA
Hi Dale -- that's my fear as well. My daughter is in 5th grade and is 10 years old. I think at this age, she gets more out of interacting with a teacher than she would conversing by e-mail. On the other hand, the courses they offer are simply not available anywhere else and she may be willing to put up with the computer. At 10, she's pretty good with a mouse and typing and has a good sense about how computers work.
ReplyDeleteThe Johns Hopkins testing is for kids in grades 2 through 6 (SCAT) or 7 and 8 (SAT1 or ACT). My son the 9th grader did SAT1 in 7th grade, which makes him eligible all through high school. For him, the program is a god-send.
He had a disastrous year in school in geometry. His first teacher quit after 2 weeks (abruptly in the middle of the day), they grabbed a warm body in the hall to fill in for 2 months while they searched for a permanent replacement. The class made no progress, purely maintaining control of the classroom was beyond the reach of the substitute. Finally, a permanent teacher was hired, but they were months behind and again, classroom control is an issue. The geometry curriculum was dumbed way down -- just passing references to proofs, no proofs on his mid-term, virtually no homework.
In frustration, we found an Honors Geometry class offered through Johns Hopkins through distance education. It is going extremely well. In the second week he was doing rigorous proofs and it isn't letting up. He is working harder on the Honors Geometry course than all other school work combined.
Having this as an option is worth the hassle of taking the SAT in middle school. That was stressful. The first practice exam, he gave up in frustration and tears after about 5 minutes.
We threw money at that problem too -- lots of review books and test taking strategy books. He did well enough to qualify for all the Johns Hopkins stuff, and now he knows what to expect when he takes it for real. I guess it was worth it. At the time, we never anticipated we'd be replacing the curriculum at school this way, but it's working.
Also, kids can take all kinds of AP courses that might not be offered at their public high school. This is a pretty good benefit as well. We have a small high school here, with a really limited AP offering.
The Johns Hopkins test went fine. By the way, my son is 10 and in 5th grade. The math went better than the verbal, but we knew that. He qualified based on the ERB/CPT-4 tests he took at school. It will be interesting to see the results. In any case, it was good practice for him.
ReplyDeleteAn interesting note is that his private school was supposed to send the CPT-4 results to JH so they could send an invitation to all kids who qualified. The school stopped doing this and didn't let any of the parents know. The headmaster just decided that the CTY program was not good for the kids. He told me this when I asked why we didn't receive a notice. I told him that, at the very least, he should let parents know of the opportunity. Incredible. Can't trust those parents to make the right decision, apparently.
I have heard different stories about the distance learning. One big negative is the price. Another complaint is that the summer courses are compressed too much. However, one student at my son's school is doing a distance course in place of the regular 8th grade math. I guess the headmaster doesn't want that to become common knowledge, but the parents are paying the price.
In any case, I can teach him all he needs to know in math, as long as he is willing to let me do so.
"We got her test results back..."
In less than a week?
My son took the SAT thru Johns Hopkins in 7th and 8th grade. I would agree that they are good practice, but I guess there’s a downside if a child starts stressing about these too early.
ReplyDeleteI remember the middle school guidance counselor emphatically telling me that the school does not use these tests for any purpose. When I asked if she knew of any other kids who had taken summer courses, she advised me to ask JH about this and hinted how the courses were high-priced resume builders. He won state awards for his high scores, but the school never publicized these honors as they normally do for many other student accomplishments.
In hindsight, this was one of many instances where the message from the middle school was “don’t put too much pressure on your child, these are emotionally and physically turbulent years, there is no need for acceleration.”
I have heard wonderful stories how teens in the summer programs had wonderful experiences and made fast friends with other participants. Although we encouraged him, my son never became interested in signing up for either distance learning or the summer programs
It took 4 days to get the results of the SCAT. My daughter's interests are in mythology and history, and marine biology. Through Johns Hopkins, she has the opportunity (if she chooses) to explore these now. These are not topics covered in great depth in the public school. As for her math -- that is not an interest, I feel like I can stay ahead of her with Singapore Math.
ReplyDeleteMy son's geometry course was a necessity -- he was going to lose a whole year otherwise. And, as Catherine has pointed out, teenagers are loathe to do schoolwork with their parents, so this seemed like a good option.
Our school did not inform parents of eligibility. If I hadn't had a son go through it, I would have never known. Getting an advanced rating on state tests is enough to qualify for the SCAT. But schools do not want parents to know this.
On the other hand, we spend tons of money informing parents of all the options available when it comes to magnet schools and tech high schools. Letters home, newsletters, open houses, . . . Board members have said that they wouldn't want to take any opportunities away from an interested kid.
Sure. Unless its academic.
Northwestern (near Chicago) has a similar thing. We've been involved with the enrichment classes, but we are getting up to the age where course credit is available. And yes, there are all kinds of courses that the local high schools don't offer, so anything you all have to say about your experiences is really interesting.
ReplyDeleteLynn,
The distance learning classes were basically online ones, correct? I imagine John Hopkins and Northwesten offer similar ones. How is it for kids to learn online? I'm a little nervous about getting into something and paying for it if it isn't going to pan out.
On a side note, I've heard of homeschoolers who use Stanford's online math courses for kids to teach their advanced kid if they're unable to. I've heard it's pretty rigorous, but I don't know much beyond that.
I imagine a school is going to avoid advertising about these kinds of programs for fear that parents will demand it in their schools. If I didn't know homeschoolers I would never have found out about half of this stuff.
The JH distance is online. For the high school math, the student is given a secure password that gets him (or her) onto the "whiteboard" website. It's interactive. Kids can draw with the mouse, write equations and symbols, and see how the instructor responds, draws on top, modifies the drawing, etc. It's pretty cool. They communicate with their assigned tutor through the white board, e-mail, fax or phone. So far, its gone well. Even when my son doesn't ask for help, the tutor will send him e-mails asking how he's doing on particular problems.
ReplyDeleteIt's working well for a high school kid that regularly checks his e-mail and is comfortable working more or less independently.
"I still haven't got Christopher's ITBS scores back."
ReplyDeleteI received my third graders scores yesterday. First, there was no score for Word Analysis, Listening, Capitalization and Punctuation. Thus, there was no Language total.
There was no score for math computation. However, he was scored on concepts & estimation and problem solving and data interpretation. He scored above the 50th percentile, but it was obvious by looking at the individual scores that this was a weak area for him.
In our county, of the fifteen subtests available in the ITBS, nine were selected for the local test battery. In a letter to the parents, it stated that some students might receive scores for fewer than nine subtests if they were exempted from any of the subtests, did not complete any of the subtests or were absent on the day of testing.
So his narrative states that since he did not complete enough of the tests, there is no interpretation of his overall achievement.
I called two other parents whose children are in different classes and they confirmed that the subtests I listed above were not scored for their children either.
One parent said the school will give the Metropolitan 8 test in fourth grade.
No math computation? That seems strange to me. Am I missing something?
--PaulaV
SusanS:
ReplyDeleteJohns Hopkins offers a few different distance math classes at the elementary level, and a broader range at the high school level. My kids took "accelarated math" which covers a basic curriculum (as opposed to a class like Math Olympiads or cryptography). The Hopkins accelerated elementary school math classes use the same program as Stanford's online courses. The material is good, but the presentation leaves a lot to be desired. If you don't understand something from the initial presentation, your options are (1) to repeat the initial presentation; or (2) to send an e-mail to your tutor and wait for a response. The tutor's responses are canned, and really don't work the same way as a teacher answering a question on the spot. I really wanted my kids to love the distance learning, so I could just forget about the math they aren't learning in school, but it didn't work for us. I think that for more mature kids it might be better.
--DaleA
" ...the message from the middle school was “don’t put too much pressure on your child, these are emotionally and physically turbulent years, there is no need for acceleration.”"
ReplyDeleteThe real message is that they think they are the experts and don't even want to give you information to let you decide - not just for academics, but for emotional and character development. It's really annoying. Maybe they think you need to go to ed school to become a good parent.
When I went to pick him up from school early today, I felt the need to think up something to say if one of the teachers brought up the subject of testing. I really have to get over that feeling.
“Maybe they think you need to go to ed school to become a good parent.”
ReplyDeleteBINGO!
Thanks Dale and Lynn,
ReplyDeleteI'll have to look around and see who has used them at Northwestern. My son is getting more self-motivated, but if a class bored him or was confusing it would turn him off to the point where I would probably never be able to get him to take another one again.
On the other hand, when he got to chapter 2 and had to construct an entire proof involving complementary and supplementary angles, he totally balked. Why do I have to prove it? I know how to do it. It's so easy; why am I wasting my time writing out the reasons why?
ReplyDeleteI simply said, you make a good argument. Take it up with your mathematician tutor. See how that flies. If you can convince him that you shouldn't have to do a formal proof, I won't make you either.
I heard no more about it.
I was in the Northwestern version of the CTY as a middle school student in the late 80s (I took the SAT in 7th and 8th grades).
ReplyDeleteI did two of the three-week summer courses, which were indeed very compressed (a year of chemistry! a semester-or-so worth of literature!), but very worthwhile. I think the chemistry was more successful than the literature, since even if you read quickly it still takes time to read and digest, whereas with chem we just did fewer exercises on the presumption that the audience didn't need as many. Perhaps if there had been pre-reading that would have worked better (we did have pre-work for chemistry -- some basic periodic table memorization).
But the environment was wonderful -- a college campus, surrounded by other smart kids. And I loved Evanston and Chicago.
I also did a year of Latin by correspondence course, but I don't remember if that was through Northwestern or JH. That didn't stick with me as well -- I needed more drilling and didn't get it in that context. I have bought a book to start learning it again, though.
I didn't think of them as resume fodder, mainly because I did them in middle school so I don't think they appeared on my transcript except perhaps as a footnote to explain why I didn't take the usual HS chemistry course.
I will definitely be following up on these opportunities for my kids if they seem suited to it rather than waiting for the school district to offer access to them.
-m
Thanks anon,
ReplyDeleteI'm going to follow up on this since my son is in the 6th grade. The school would never mention it.
It's good to hear from someone who has actually experienced it.
His first teacher quit after 2 weeks (abruptly in the middle of the day), they grabbed a warm body in the hall to fill in for 2 months while they searched for a permanent replacement.
ReplyDeletegood lord
Your story is so encouraging.
ReplyDeleteWell, today we're discouraged again.
(Nothing to go into particularly-)
With a major bond issue possibly coming up next year to do a badly needed field project, we'll see.
I don't think parents are as fed up.
That's the thing.
People here are incredibly unhappy, and it goes to the tone of the district, not to the curriculum being taught.
(I'm almost positive I'm right about this.)
Our administration is micromanaging. The teachers, I hear, are very unhappy; the district has a reputation as a bad place to work; parents are simply experiencing the same high-handed treatment teachers are.
There's no way TRAILBLAZERS would have killed the fields bond under our previous superintendent.
However, narrowing the margin by which the bond passes can be done, and is a good idea.
One piece of advice: never, ever, attack fields.
It's critically important not to attack other parents, their values & goals ever.
FIELDS ARE GOOD. (I mean that, btw; I'm philosophically pro-athletics.)
The key is to point out irresponsible spending on a discredited curriculum mathematicians, physicists, economists, engineers, and computer scientists universally reject.
Lynn & Steve - can one or both of you write a post about these courses & how you go about taking them?
ReplyDeleteThe headmaster just decided that the CTY program was not good for the kids. He told me this when I asked why we didn't receive a notice. I told him that, at the very least, he should let parents know of the opportunity. Incredible. Can't trust those parents to make the right decision, apparently.
Core issue with schools.
Way too much power.
Paula - unbelievable
ReplyDeleteI gave Christopher the entire ITBS via BJU, then discovered today that his results were lost in the mail.
Sigh.
Lynn & Steve - can one or both of you write a post about these courses & how you go about taking them?
ReplyDeleteThis would be a great idea. Parents need options and with computers they have more now than ever before, if they could just find them.
I'll certainly weigh in for the midwest here. Northwestern has a good website explaining a lot of what they do, but it helps to hear of actual experiences with the programs.
Northwestern calls its online courses during the year Learning Links, and I believe you have to take the Explore test for younger classes. I assume the SAT for the 7th grade and up (for credit), but again, I need to get specifics.
I know we've mentioned the Stanford program.
All of these programs are mostly for very bright/gifted kids. Are there any for all kinds of kids, I wonder?
For big bucks and high ability there is EPGY. http://epgy.stanford.edu/applyandregister/tuition.html
ReplyDelete"Lynn & Steve - can one or both of you write a post about these courses & how you go about taking them?"
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry I missed this request. Lynn knows more than I do. I just know of the program and what I read on their site. Google Johns Hopkins and Center for Talented Youth to read all of the details. You can apply on-line.
You have to be in the top three percent on some sort of standardized test. My son takes the ERB/CPT-4 test at his school. That just qualifies him to take the SCAT test (5th grade) which is taken on a computer at a local testing company. You have to take both a verbal and a math portion of the test, each 22 minutes long and 55 questions. If you pass those tests, then you have access to all of their programs, both on-site and distance learning - for a price.
At the very least, it was good practice for my son.