Me: "So, tell me about the War of 1812."
A.: "Well, it was ended by the Treaty of Ghent ... in Belgium ... in Europe."
Among other facts elicited:
- The Battle of New Orleans happened after the treaty was signed; the commander was future president Andrew Jackson.
- James Madison was President; his wife was Dolly Madison.
- Washington was burned.
- Francis Scott Key was captured by the British.
- The war began because the British were impressing American sailors.
Observations:
- The material is actually being taught by the school, not parents.
- The material is appropriate to the abilities of the students.
- The school is covering core knowledge (and Core Knowledge) of the subject well.
- The framework being taught now should be useful to hang future information on.
I am very impressed.
ReplyDeleteMy 4th grader knows none of this, much to my dismay.
I’m also impressed.
ReplyDeleteI’m pretty sure my 5th grader has not been taught this part of American history. In NY, I think this will be the year they cover it. But, of course, most of her social studies curriculum seems to be wrapped within the theme of “cultural diversity”.
The war began because the British were impressing American sailors.
I’d have to clarify to her that it wasn’t the British fancy clothes that “impressed” the sailors. lol!
You make a good point about framework.
ReplyDeleteMy daughter just finished a section on women’s rights. Did they skip the war of 1812? Apparently, they don’t teach in chronological order. They must have some kind of thematic framework.
Wow, all that history in just second grade! I, too, am impressed. Last year my son studied Greek and Roman history in third grade. This year it is Virginia history all the way.
ReplyDeleteHowever, recently he did bring home an article from Time for Kids to summarize. The topic was Anne Frank's chestnut tree. Oh, that was difficult. He had no idea who she was or why she was important. What was WWII and who were the Nazis? It made for an interesting discussion.
I'm jealous. There is only one Core Knowledge school around here and it's quite a hike. It also seems to have its charter up for review every other year.
ReplyDeleteOur school believes that 2nd graders are only interested in things that directly have to do with themselves. They learn about the town we live in all year.
I started reading the Greek myths to my second grader years ago and he became obsessed with all things ancient. He couldn't get enough of the Greek, Roman, or Egyptian myth. His favorite book that year was one on the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World which he hid under his desk.
Mere facts!
ReplyDeleteSuperficial Knowledge!
Boy, am I jealous!
My son is in sixth grade and has had ZERO history. The geography hasn't been too bad, but there has been ZERO history.
Years ago, I told a couple of school board members that they should hand out the Core Knowledge books: "What Your First (Second, Third) Grader needs to know" and tell parents that their kids will NOT get that kind of education.
Wow, I'm a little flabbergasted. I first read the post and for some reason assumed you were talking about a middle school child. When I reread and saw the title I was in shock. Maybe I should put my energy into moving to your district instead of trying to change mine. Can you at least hint as to what state you live in? Brilliantafornia? Educontana? New Historyshire?
ReplyDelete"I’d have to clarify to her that it wasn’t the British fancy clothes that “impressed” the sailors."
ReplyDeleteWe had a short discussion about the difference between capturing or kidnapping and impressing. His grasp of the nuance was a bit weak, but he had the concept down.
BTW,the biggest reason I posted this was to perhaps give some ammunition to people, like SteveH, who are/were trying to make teachers and administrators understand what decent teaching looks like.
(The second-biggest reason was bragging on/about* my son, of course. 8-)
* Dialectical** variation.
** "Dialectical" is the adjectival form of both "dialect" and "dialectic". Seems inefficient to me, but there you go. 8-)
Can you at least hint as to what state you live in? Brilliantafornia? Educontana? New Historyshire?
ReplyDeleteLol! Boy, we're all trying to find those states.
I will say that if you are really stuck with your own school, but want to teach history to your grade-schooler, I had great luck with The Story of The World series by Susan Wise Bauer. They are 4 small paperbacks and are meant for early grade school (Book 1, The Ancients) through 4th-5th grade by the modern era, although my middle schooler still enjoys them. I read 3 of them to my kids and we all learned a lot. It sparked a lot of discussion and library visits.
"Can you at least hint as to what state you live in? Brilliantafornia? Educontana? New Historyshire?"
ReplyDeleteSorry, I missed this cross-post.
Colorado. There are plenty of constructionist schools for those that like them (!??), but school choice is mandated at the state level and the charter school movement has had quite a bit of success in some districts.
For a longer piece on how A. ended up in this school, see http://kitchentablemath.blogspot.com/2007/10/learning-in-castle-of-fear.html
"...who are/were trying to make teachers and administrators understand what decent teaching looks like."
ReplyDeleteThe teachers know about the Core Knowledge approach. They don't like it. I would prefer that more parents get to see what good teaching and curricula are like.
Actually, many parents know that there are problems. I ran into a new parent to our town last weekend. Her daughter is in my son's class. She said that she and her husband, who saw all of the crayon work and no textbooks, wanted to know what goes on in school all day. Internet cameras. That's what we need.
A common problem that parents have is that our knowledge is second-hand. My son is getting better at explaining what goes on in class, but I still have to take it with a grain of sail. A common discussion at our house involves my asking him: "Tell me exactly what happened." Parents are in a poor position because we don't know what really is going on.
But even if we do know what's going on, how do you go to a school or teacher and tell them that you don't agree with their fundamental assumptions and curriculum? Parents can't waltz in and expect change. Even if you find just the right time and approach, they won't change. The only way to make large changes in assumptions is to organize parents. This would be viewed as a very UN-friendly approach. That's why so many parents in our town send their kids to private schools. That's not a perfect solution either, so it comes down to poor choices.
There is no process for addressing fundamental assumptions. That's their turf and they don't want any input.
Story of the World is a good start in world history. For U.S. History, The Story of US, by Joy Hakim gets my vote. It's 10 volumes that begin with Beringia and the migration of people to our continent. It's narrated in a very engaging style and reads much like a story... except it's real.
ReplyDelete"** "Dialectical" is the adjectival form of both "dialect" and "dialectic". Seems inefficient to me, but there you go. 8-)"
ReplyDeleteThe adjectival form of dialect is dialectal. It doesn't sound pleasing but it avoids confusion.
MW 10C:
ReplyDeletedialectical 2 : relating to, or characteristic of a dialect
("Dialectal" is listed as the adjectival form under "dialect", but both forms have the imprimatur of Merriam Webster.)
"...who saw all of the crayon work and no textbooks..."
ReplyDeleteTalk about changing assumptions. Here you are up against a core belief of the dominant progressive/constructivist ideology. Hatred of textbooks is de rigueur in these quarters. There is logic to it since constructivists believe in "constructing", not imparting knowledge. The pretense is that every pupil is a scholar who must do as scholars do, or scientists for that matter -- create new knowledge. I suppose scholars and scientists don't need to read books.
"We had a short discussion about the difference between capturing or kidnapping and impressing. His grasp of the nuance was a bit weak, but he had the concept down."
ReplyDeleteAt least they weren't dragooned or shanghaied. (grin)
We'll save "dragooned" for the discussion of the War of the Austrian Succession. (I suspect that I'll have to teach that at home.)
ReplyDelete8-)
i didn't know most of this
ReplyDeleteand'll soon forget.
but i know this:
"eighteen-fourteen,
took a little trip,
'long with colonel jackson
to the mighty mississip ...".
(if it wasn't for pop culture
i'd hardly have any culture at all.)
great post.
We fired our guns and the British kept a'comin'
ReplyDeleteThere wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago
We fired once more and they began to runnin'
On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico
Thanks for the trip down memory lane! A great song if ever there was one!
I read a book that claimed that the war ended because American privateers were costing British businessmen huge amounts of money. The British were out-sailed and out-fought. Poor New England farm boys could go to sea and come back fabulously rich, or dead.
ReplyDeleteThe War of 1812 was a disaster for New England shipping interests. Much of the merchant marine of the US was destroyed by the British navy. Ship-for-ship, the US Navy was the superior of the British Navy, but the disparity in sizes was too much to overcome.
ReplyDeleteOff the high seas, the Battle of Lake Erie is pretty interesting to the military historian. There aren't many cases of major naval actions on lakes.
I'm told that Theodore Roosevelt's The Naval War of 1812 is very well written (it was a part of the reason he gained national prominence in the late 19th century), but I've yet to read it. (It's in one of my to-be-read stacks even as I write this.)
The Story of US, by Joy Hakim gets my vote...
ReplyDeleteJoy Hakim also has a series "The Story of Science". They are Smithsonian Books. I don't think the third one has been published yet, but I have the first two and they are terrific.
I had not idea about the Story of Science. Sounds like I've just added more books to the shopping list. Thank you!
ReplyDeleteUmmm... that would be no idea. :)
ReplyDeleteThree are published: Aristotle, Newton, and Einstein.
ReplyDeleteshoot me
ReplyDeleteThat said, the social studies curriculum in NY state gets an "A" from Fordham, C. knows an amazing amount (compared to what I know, which isn't much...)
ReplyDeleteActually, his dad isn't up in arms about the social studies curriculum (though Global Studies, at the h.s., may be a bridge too far).
Interestingly, up through 8th grade, the subjects that don't create a lot of strife between parents and the school are the two that get As from Fordham for state of NY: social studies & science.
ReplyDeleteMath gets a C, and there is constant strife.
ELA gets a B, and there's been a lot of strife over writing instruction or lack of writing instruction.
Can't tell what's going on at the high school.
Tex -- you should check it out.
ReplyDeleteNY has history/social studies standards that I believe may require a narrative, not thematic approach.
We have Diane Ravitch to thank for this, amongst others.
I found an article on EPIC assailing her for having destroyed social studies by inducing troglodyte state legislatures to vote in historical narrative, or some such.
Our school believes that 2nd graders are only interested in things that directly have to do with themselves. They learn about the town we live in all year.
ReplyDeleteThese are prosaic folks, yon constructivists.
Thanks for the update. I'm ordering 'Eimstein' tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteI don't know which "team" textbookleague.org is on ... but they don't seem to happy with Ms. Hakim's "History of US":
ReplyDeletehttp://www.textbookleague.org/121hakm.htm
Can anyone here comment on the criticism above?
-Mark Roulo
I vaguely remember, from my days languishing in education grad school, positive things being said about Hakim's work, which made me automatically distrust it. After reading more on that site, my gut reaction is confirmed.
ReplyDeleteI read parts of The History or Us (I have 4 or 5 books.) I did enjoy their readability, but there was a slant at times that I did not pick up from The History of the World series.
ReplyDeleteIn defense of The History of Us, the books seem more pointed towards a middle school/high school
reading level. The History of the World is pointed towards grade school. I'm speaking of parents actually reading the chapters in both.
History of Us is a bit more chatty, working to show relevance today. That might be okay for middle schoolers, but I still like facts and dates to be more prominent.
Core Knowledge was going to put out some books that hit certain areas of history. One was called Rats, Bulls, and something else. It was actually about Medieval/Renaissance times with rats referring to the Black Death, and the "bull" meaning Papal Bulls referring to the Reformation.
That book pulled together the best of both series for older kids. Unfortunately, they got off schedule for other books that they were going to write, so I don't know if they did anymore.
Mark, thanks for sharing that. I'm not sure I agree with the whole "multi-culti" thing, but factual errors are another issue altogether. There are many more postive reviews than criticisms, and it's even a Hoagies Gifted Education recommendation among many others.
ReplyDeleteIt is a ten volume book series (latest edition 2002) and the critique was 2000 so I would hope that any factual errors have been addressed in the recent edition. However, that is something serious to consider. That said, it's important (particularly in History) not to assume that this series, or any chronicle of history, is the end all, be all. It is merely a jumping board. At this point, I want my children to have a clear chronology (which is why we keep a running timeline of major historical events). In our timeline, we often find that different sources have dates that may vary. This too becomes an opportunity to discuss the recording of history, possible conflicts, biases, etc. When my children are ready/able, getting as close to primary sources as possible is the goal. I read with children ages 5, 7, 9, for example. The 9 year old is responsible for following up on things we learn in other documents (encyclopedias, etc.)
The short of it (finally,) is that for younger children, I would still recommend at least the early volumes of the series.
Susan, you're very right. History of US is very chatty. It reads like a bedtime story and that keeps my children interested without jumping too far ahead with what we're doing in World History. The bottom line for us is that the focus is ancient history this year. We're doing up to the end of the Roman Empire. We needed to cover US History but I wanted to stay close to the timeline we're working on. Early civilizations in the Americas is a wonderful complement to what we're learning about in world history. Once we get to what is traditionally agreed upon U.S. History, I believe we're going to have to rely on many other sources for the concrete content knowledge.
ReplyDeleteAnother great resource is edhelper. We do many of their lessons on holidays such as Constitution Day, Martin Luther King, Jr, Labor Day, Columbus Day, Independence Day, etc.
ReplyDeleteIn addition to the history books mentioned above, Core Knowledge uses a series edited by ED Hirsch: http://www.coreknowledge.org/bookstore/index.php?main_page=document_general_info&cPath=15&products_id=26
ReplyDeleteThe description looks attractive but I have never seen copies.
H&G
At this point, I want my children to have a clear chronology (which is why we keep a running timeline of major historical events). In our timeline, we often find that different sources have dates that may vary.
ReplyDeleteHi Concerned -–
Is this an actual graphic timeline you’ve created? Or something else? This sounds so appealing for my kids (and for me, too!).
Can you elaborate?
Yes, it's a graphic timeline. I actually cheated a little and purchased a pre-printed timeline that doesn't list event, but spaces the centuries out with enough space to record events of significance. I'll look for the source and pass it on if you're interested. They actually are very nicely done.
ReplyDeleteMark --
ReplyDeleteI think I asked Ed about the textbookleague criticisms.
He likes Hakim's books. I think he's read at least one cover to cover and skimmed others.
Thanks Catherine (and Ed) for sharing that. It is very reassuring to have the perspective of an historian.
ReplyDeleteAs for the source of the timelines:
http://www.pandiapress.com/timeline.html
They fit in very well with the Well Trained Mind take on the teaching and learning of history.
So, how was A.'s test? Sounds like he was more than ready.
ReplyDeleteIt's really wonderful that he's learning so much content in second grade from his teachers. This is yet more proof that meaningful learning can happen in a school setting when the commitment is there. This isn't drill and kill, this is preparing a child to succeed. Your son is very fortunate to be in such a rich learning environment.
The timeline is a great idea. I need to do one again.
ReplyDeleteThey do have many more online, but I've never quite found what I wanted.
When my kids were younger, I got banner paper and just measured out the decades evenly (I think they were around an inch apart roughly). I wrote above the line with stencils the era that the centuries covered (Ancient, Medieval, Renaissance/Early Modern and Modern). Then I would add Internet pics that I printed out on cardstock to the various times as we would get to them. I corresponded it with The Story of the World and Usborne's World History Book.
This is based on The Well-Trained Mind's (book by Jesse Wise and Susan Wise Bauer) version of doing it. I learned more than the kids.
The fascinating thing when you stick it up on your kids wall is how the ancient world takes up about two walls and the rest of history crams along one wall. The Well-Trained Mind insists that you not fudge an era. It does give you a great visual perspective.
I need to do it again, but it took a few hours to do it. I'm sure you could do one on the computer, but I had no idea how to do that way back then.
concernedctparent,
ReplyDeleteThat's a great link! Maybe I don't have to make one again.
I know I'm the odd person out here but I've always found learning about history boring and/or sad. I didn't enjoy it in grade school and I was miserable taking the required history course in college (even though I'd chosen a liberal arts college on purpose.) I don't even enjoy the History Channel.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if this is just me or it's somehow related to being a science/math person.
I need a timeline.
ReplyDeleteI know nothing about history, and have just become interested in it in middle age. Ed thinks that's common.
You might want to try it again -- might be more interesting now.
I still find it difficult to read, though (difficult in terms of sticking with it).
"...and have just become interested in it in middle age. Ed thinks that's common."
ReplyDeleteIt is.
I find now that I'm much older (and know more), I like history a lot more. Pieces are starting to fit together and make much more sense. I read a book about the US Exploring Expedition and found it fascinating. In the 1830's people thought that there might be holes in the earth at the poles.
After my uncle died, I found that he had 16 boxes and trunks of family memorabilia going back 300 years: pictures, letters, deeds and wills, including falling-apart currency and papers from the Revolution. What struck me about looking at these things is that it really wasn't that long ago. My grandfather fought in WWI and his great-grandfather fought in the Revolution.
What does Ed think about the idea that learning history shortens one's sense of time. I grew up thinking that anything before 1900 was ancient history. Not really, but that's what it seemed like.
CP, thank you for that timeline link! I’m ordering today.
ReplyDeleteI have also become more interested in history in middle age. It used to seem so hard back when I was in school. I’m not sure why I didn’t find it interesting.
My history brainiac teenager has also been a motivator for me. Back about in 5th or 6th grade, he started to look at me with bewilderment when he realized he knew his history better than I did. That hurt, but at the same time it made me very proud. I compare it to fathers who’ve told me how their sons started to beat them in tennis, basketball or other sports. However, the physical things are the natural order of life. I would have preferred the history knowledge outdistancing to come about later, like about the time Alzheimer’s kicks in.
The history timeline is listed as number one on the “This Week’s Bestsellers” list at the Classical Home Education website. Interesting.
ReplyDeleteMy older kid developed a love for history early on via reading historical fiction. For her, learning history in school was then a natural extension.
ReplyDeleteSeveral years ago we were in lower Manhattan, and were walking from the old Federal Building to Battery Park. As we walked by Fraunces Tavern, our older kid became very excited, and insisted that we stop and go in. She knew its historical significance to the Revolutionary War because of a book that her 5th grade class had read.
As it turns out, the upper floor of the Tavern is a lovely museum; we were there for several hours.
My younger kid's path has been similar, although not as intense. A quick example: she saw Big River in third grade, and was hooked on the story of Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer. That led to her reading an abridged version of Huck Finn. When her 8th grade American History class discussed slavery and the Civil War, her interest was already picqued.
I also think learning history is a case of the more you know, the more you want to know. If you have those sky hooks in place, then it becomes easier to acquire new knowledge.
I might also note that older kid didn't like Physics. Part of that may have been because the material itself was difficult for her, and she didn't see its relevance. Even when presented with clear evidence of its relevance, she still chose to deny it. I might also add that she was driven to do well, and so still worked hard at learning Physics.
ReplyDeleteBut, for her, the most interesting part of Physics was learning about Ptolemy and Copernicus, for example. Learning about the development and history of Physics while learning Physics itself was helpful, at least for her.
I find now that I'm much older (and know more), I like history a lot more. Pieces are starting to fit together and make much more sense.
ReplyDeleteMe, too!
It seems Sylvan goes through high school and does college prep (ACT/SAT) as well.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to have to check it out.
ReplyDeleteI'm figuring we're going to need help for physics and chemistry.
Oh, and math.
Don't know, but this is what I'm hearing from other parents.
The fascinating thing when you stick it up on your kids wall is how the ancient world takes up about two walls and the rest of history crams along one wall.
ReplyDeleteYet another thing I didn't know...