Well, my son's 2nd quarter report card came home today along with the results of the state tests he took in the Fall. I can't even begin to express my feelings.
The report card is split into two parts; one based on tests (1 - 5 rubric), and one based on everything else, I guess, (6-10 rubric). Nobody can figure it out. The published honor roll is based on the 6-10 scale I think to allow for what I might call full-inclusion on the honor roll. Few in town really know that the honor role doesn't include tests. There are three honor levels and about half of the students get on one honor roll or another. That half is very close to all girls. My son is the only boy at the top honor level. (I guess that full-inclusion doesn't apply to most boys.) I should be happy, right? His testing grades (1-5 rubric) are all very high. No problems. There are no problems in math, otherwise, I would have to blame myself.
The problem comes with the state testing results (for NCLB). Let me just say that our state tests might be a little on the fuzzy side, but they are selected and calibrated by teachers from our state, not some politicians in Washington DC. You can go out and look at the sample test questions. There is nothing unusual about the questions. They are easy. In Math, there is a correlation between his school grades and the state testing results. However, this has never been the case for reading, vocabulary, and comprehension. My top rubric level 5 son only gets a raw score of 71% on the simple state testing. This is nothing new. I saw this non-correlation with school grade back when he was in fifth grade, and it has only gotten worse. Considering the work I see coming home from his Language Arts and Reading classes, it appears that the school just does not believe in teaching reading comprehension. I think their philosophy is that a lot of reading solves everything.
Has anyone else seen this effect? I taught an after-school SSAT prep class last year and it seemed like everyone had trouble with reading comprehension. I've been waiting for the school to get serious about reading comprehension and writing and it just hasn't come. Just read, read, read. I did talk to the Language Arts teacher about reading comprehension at the beginning of the year and she talked a good talk about comprehension and expository writing, but I haven't seen anything.
Apparently there is a difference of opinion between our teachers and the ones who created the test. Maybe our teachers think that their indirect approach (read, read, read) will get the job done. Heaven forbid if they tackle comprehension by direct practicing. I think they have even given up on spelling and vocabulary. It's all about reading, and I'm not impressed by what my son reads.
Teaching "reading comprehension" sounds difficult.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like comprehension it both decoding *and&* prior subject matter knowledge.
I've heard very respected teachers say that while people talk about a comprehension problem, most comprehension issues are related to poor decoding skills, since teaching of decoding stops after the early grades, if it's taught at all.
And on the content side . . .
well, schools have given that up too because they want to teach higher order skills
that's just my read on things, without any particular studies to back it up. (sorry)
Same thing here, Steve.
ReplyDeleteI started realizing that the writing program wasn't getting the job done. Our school, like many others, doesn't really bother with spelling or grammar, and they don't much correct for it either.
Catherine and I have been going back and forth about how to remediate for all this before high school in the fastest, most efficient way possible.
Just recently I got serious about it because when I asked him to outline a simple article, he had no clue. He understands how to find a main point, but he doesn't really know how to step back and categorize secondary or tertiary points. It was an eye-opener.
He also can't summarize, another important (but so old school) skill for comprehension. He reflexively puts his opinion in on some trivial fact because that is how he's been trained to react to reading since grade school. I keep telling him that when I want his opinion, I'll ask for it. I want him to summarize the article before him, not his personal take on it. I can't tell you how difficult this has been for him.
I am back to Megawords and a Vocab book, along with a grammar curriculum.
And he has to summarize or outline something a couple of times a week, just for the practice. And it must be handwritten and in cursive (that almost killed him, but it's amazing how fast it comes back.)I use the newspaper, magazines, or those activity books with articles built around one event (e.g.WWII, MedievalTimes). Also, I use the Kingfisher World Encyclopedia.
You could also look at ACT or the high school exam prep books for reading comprehension. They have a variety of passages, short and long, and the answers are in the back. It was good practice for my son (we did the ACT twice and the high school exam once) and it gave him a more clear idea of what he needs to focus on.
And my son's a big reader. That does not take care of it. Maybe with some kids, but not mine. He needs explicit instruction.
SuasnS
Oh yeah, it's bad. I intercepted a page and a half of notes being passed around my math class. This was very dense writing as there were no spaces between the words, nor punctuation of any kind.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing that made it remotely readable was the differing penmanships, pen colors, and styles on display. Every single word (I'm taking great liberties with 'word') was three letters or less.
The entire sorry document was phonetic triplets. I thought, at first, that I was reading a foreign language. Then I realized that these kids were jis tok in dur one lag wij an I was da ful hoo din no wat day was say in cos I tot by 7 grd do stew dints shud no ow 2 put 2 ged er sen 10 sis
My bad I guess. I get homework back now with texting messages; Mr B IDK this.
I want to write back; well IBTIFTL3WWHUB (I've been teaching it for the last 3 weeks. Where have you been?)
In my son's case, you can't blame it on the student or his parents. The school is telling us that everything is OK (grades), but the state's simple test says that it isn't. I've looked at some of the sample reading comprehension questions and they are not difficult.
ReplyDeleteIf the schools don't like those sorts of questions, then they need to explicitly tell the parents that they don't value tests like the SSAT, SAT, or ACT. If they think that a heavy reading approach will get the job done, then I have proof that it doesn't work.
So now I have to tell my son that he has to do more work with me because the school can't or won't do the job, even though he is a "Exemplary Student".
One of the things I've noticed is how simple the assigned books can be. Since the classes are still pretty all inclusive, the books have to be targeted to the middle or even the bottom from what I can tell. It's not that they're bad books, but they don't really push the upper level kids much. My son can usually read them in a day or two. Even the G/T book assignments are pretty simple.
ReplyDeleteA lot of bright middle schoolers are ready for more difficult assignments. My neighbor's daughter likes to read, but finds all of the books assigned rather boring. Luckily, I had some older classics to loan her that I knew my son wouldn't touch--Anne of Green Gables, Jane Eyre, anything by Jane Austen, and so on. They've been a big hit apparently.
SusanS
I agree with SusanS. Our eldest child's in public school. The school practices inclusion, so the texts can't be challenging enough to stretch her. Our system uses the Writing Workshop model for teaching writing, so there's no practice in organizing one's thoughts in a logical manner.
ReplyDeleteI think Catherine had a post up some time ago, about Lucy Calkins' opinion about "leveled reading," I think it was. The gist, as I remember it, was that schools require children to read texts which are too challenging, so the children shut down. This is arrant nonsense, in my opinion. I majored in English, and I'm upset to see English rendered an uninteresting area of study.
I'd suggest you turn to the classics. Twain, Dickens, Mutiny on the Bounty, Treasure Island, Around the World in Eighty Days, Robinson Crusoe, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Jules Verne, H.G. Wells. For a boy, I'd choose adventure stories, in which the characters are active and adventurous.
Require your son to write a short summary of the action in each chapter. However, don't require him to interrupt the flow of his reading to stop and produce a summary.
I haven't seen much correlation between grades and test scores. One of my children aced two of the state tests last year, yet rec'd '3' grades instead of '4' for some of the components on the fifth grade report card relating to the test. Middle school grades have app. 1/6 of the grade apportioned to mastery of the material, so I suspect there is little correlation to the state test results.
ReplyDeleteMy humble opinion is that the preparation necessary to acheive a high '3' or a '4' is left up to the parent or tutor. My observation is that many of the skills necessary to be a '3' or a '4' are deliberately not taught, even in the honors sections as they are viewed as 'study skills' and therefore not the school's responsibility. Other skills (inference, conclusion, elements or lit, elements of poetry, essay planning, ...)are omitted because the chairman of the dept and principal have decided to focus on the lower level skills necessary to keep '3's as '3's instead of sinking lower. Can't say I blame them, since the noisy populace here is at the school board meetings demanding the IB option in the high school be eliminated in favor of 'extra help' for their disinterested children.
I found this report worthwhile in guiding me as to the lacking skills: http://www.sreb.org/programs/hstw/publications/pubs/03V61_honor_english.pdf and of course I completely agree with the thought "If students are
never given Proficient-level assignments or higher, then
they cannot be expected to achieve at higher levels."
Great Source has a Reader's Handbook that is a good reference for all the skills that are supposed to be mastered before high school. This teacher's website is wonderful (makes me want to move back to the midwest):
http://www.bismarck.k12.mo.us/English/skinner/Classes/7th.html
Although my son doesn't read some of the classics and include enough variation in genre, he does read books at his level. What I am finding, however, is that the school just does not teach reading comprehension directly. It's one thing to read a whole book and then write something about it, and it's another thing to read a short passage and then answer specific questions.
ReplyDeleteOne of the problems with the whole book approach is that it is difficult to write about a whole book in three or four paragraphs or even one page, which is all they expect. On the state test, you have to read a short passage or article (about one page) and answer specific questions and write about specific points. These are different skills. As far as I can tell, the school NEVER does this.
I am going to print out a sample state reading/writing test and ask the principal to show me when and how they teach those skills. I am going to ask why my son gets an "A" from the school and a "C-" on the simple state test.
Sometimes...just sometimes, it's the test. A teacher once told us that very intelligent, creative kids can score lower on such tests because they "overthink" the question.
ReplyDeleteI've noticed a shift in our public school towards "teaching to the test." In limited quantities, it's not objectionable, particularly as the school doesn't seem to teach certain skills in other ways. However, I'm noticing a shift towards too great an emphasis on test-taking, and away from building the skills my children will need on a long-term basis.
I'd recommend that you try a few sessions with a tutor who specializes in SSAT preparation.
"Require your son to write a short summary of the action in each chapter."
ReplyDeleteI'm already teaching him math, but I guess I'll have to do something about this too. I might as well homeschool at the rate I'm going.
I think I will take a direct approach to the problem. Since he has a problem with doing well on these tests, I will give him a lot of tests to do. They don't take too much time and I can go over them in detail with him. He does fine with reading and the big concepts. He just needs practice with the details.
"Great Source has a Reader's Handbook that is a good reference ..."
Thanks for the link!
Another one we used was The 6-Way Paragraph--100 Passages for Developing the Six Essential Categories of Comprehension. They are short passages with questions following. The first question asks to identify the main topic. Then there are follow-up ones. They're nice because you can just say to go do it without having to hover.
ReplyDeleteI started my son with the lower level one, but soon realized he could handle the upper one. If you're interested, you can just have mine. Let me know and I'll send it to you.
Also, the SAT has more reading passages than the ACT, and more short ones.
As far as classics go, I'm not above monetary bribes. My son's pretty money-oriented, so he's figured out that it's a painless way to get some extra cash. The last book I paid him for was Angela's Ashes (it's usually 10 or 15 bucks.) Usually, after about 50 pages he comes in and tells me that it's the greatest book he has ever read.
I tried to get him to read Agatha Christie (he loves Sherlock Holmes), but that was one that didn't take.
However, he loves Michael Crichton (no money for that one), and has read everything he has written. I think Crichton's vocabulary is not too hard, but it reqiures some stamina for a kid to get through 700 pages+ of a novel.
SusanS
At a younger level (grades 1-4) a good way to teach reading comprehension for our homeschool has been The Story of the World history curriculum. Kids read a chapter a week (2 or 3 times, usually) and answer questions on it, maybe do some outlining; at the end of the week they take a test, which by 4th grade includes one question that requires a paragraph answer. The difficulty increases from grades 1-4, so that by the time we started the fourth book my kids seemed to be over their heads and we had to start really breaking the reading down: this is an intro paragraph, this is a list, this is a person's name, a date, this is filler, etc. My kids have had to learn what to pay attention to and what to recall. They have to learn what is a stated fact and what is an inference, or a recalled fact on the topic from another source. And so on. Ostensibly they are learning history but to a great extent they are learning to read.
ReplyDelete"teaching to the test."
ReplyDeleteThis has been a big (and very vague) issue. If my son is required to read 300-400 page books and then write short, general summaries, how does that translate into other needed skills? This raises the issue of direct or indirect (thematic?) approaches to teaching and learning. How can my son develop critical thinking and writing skills if he has to start with large books? I've mentioned before that most kids read far beyond their writing skills. How do you learn to write when the task is to reduce a 300 page book into a few paragraphs? You would be better off reading very short stories or articles and then writing a few carefully crafted paragraphs. That's what the state test expects.
Teaching to the test implies some sort of rote, non-adaptable learning process. Is this true? When the test consistes of a one page article where you have to answer both multiple choice questions and write short answers, what rote skills are applied? How does a "big picture" approach to reading translate into the skills needed for understanting details and nuance?
'... and away from building the skills my children will need on a long-term basis."
But what, exactly, are these skills? Can you test for them? If you do test for them, then does that mean you can't directly teach those skills? Does teaching to the test imply a process of trying to trick the test? If a school sets a goal of only doing what is needed to do well on a test, then that is a reflection of the school, not the test. Eliminating tests won't make the school better.
Obviously, my son's school does not teach to the reading comprehension test. However, their indirect approach doesn't seem to work. If I directly teach my son the skills necessary to do well on the test, does that mean I'm trying to trick the test or that these skills aren't real or valuable? Does it mean that I think that there is nothing else? It means that I think teaching and learning skills have to be approached directly. If you can't test for results, you won't know if you are teaching well or not. If a school thinks that real knowledge and understanding can't be tested, I want to send my son to another school.
As I mentioned before, I taught the after-school SSAT prep class last year. I guess I was hoping that the school would approach this problem directly this year. The teacher said that they would focus on reading comprehension and writing, but I guess that means things like "reading circles" and blogging. Since they use no textbook and do not let parents know what they are doing in class, it took half a year before it's finally sinking in.
I'm on my own once again.
SteveH, I believe that teaching language skills is more difficult than teaching math. Unfortunately, schools seem to believe that math is more difficult than English/language arts.
ReplyDeleteYour child may need some help to correlate the general level of response a question on a state test expects. Our state has short written answers for reading comprehension questions. That means that a child may understand a passage, but not be able to hit all the points the grader has on his checklist.
The trouble with schools explicitly teaching testing skills is the amount of time they spend on it! The classes are untracked. The school knows that kids like yours will do fine on the state tests. For the school, the performance of kids who are on the line between failing/needs improvement is much more important. No one has added time to the school year, which means that other parts of the curriculum must be curtailed.
Yes, you can test for the more complex skills which my children will need, long term. Off the top of my head, understanding an argument, and its supporting evidence, being able to outline the structure of an argument, and being able to attack the errors of fact or logic in an argument, are all important skills. Forming one's own argument is also important. Even in the upper grades, though, our state tests give full marks to essays which regurgitate the given passage. Length gets higher marks than understanding.
I would bet that my 8th grader can pass the mandated 10th grade Language Arts tests today. Those tests don't begin to touch the skills college students need. They're bare minimum for functioning in a high school classroom.
Thanks for the offer, Susan, but I think I will start by giving him examples of what he saw on the test. I have some SSAT prep books I can use.
ReplyDeleteI need to get him to concentrate more on every paragraph. When he reads longer books, he reads too fast and misses many fine points. If he is not really interested in a book, he doesn't concentrate as much. It's a form of laziness which is hard for me to catch and control when he is reading a whole book.
He can concentrate very well if it involves something to do with his NXT robot or installing some new feature on his blog. It also took him no time to figure out how to film a stop-motion solution to his Rubik's Cube and upload it to YouTube. Perhaps the reading comprehension problem would fix itself if he found some books he was really interested in, but there would be no easy way for me to verify the results. If I had to generalize the problem, it's that he expects everything to come easily.
"It was good practice for my son (we did the ACT twice and the high school exam once) and it gave him a more clear idea of what he needs to focus on."
Yes, I think that would motivate my son too. He likes to see things in concrete terms. He needs to know what SAT scores are required for different colleges. He needs to see and try out the tests.
"The trouble with schools explicitly teaching testing skills is the amount of time they spend on it!"
ReplyDeleteIn this case, teaching to the test really means shifting resources. When my son was in fifth grade, I asked the teacher to try and challenge him more. She didn't have the time because she had to help students who still had trouble adding 7 + 8. The problem wasn't teaching to the test, it was how on earth did these kids get to fifth grade. Direct teaching gets a bad rap.
In my son's case, the issue is direct versus indirect teaching of skills. There is no reason why my son couldn't do extremely well on the state test. There isn't something else that makes it OK to do poorly on the state test. There is nothing stopping schools from teaching to the test and then doing a whole lot more. There is nothing wrong with the process of directly teaching needed skills. In fact, if they teach to the test properly in the eary grades, there will be plenty of time in the later grades to do so much more.
In my son's case, the issue is direct versus indirect teaching of skills.
ReplyDeleteThat is exactly our problem here. And like what cranberry said, if your child is doing fine, they may not notice. They have bigger problems to worry about.
Many times when I work with him he comments that no one tells him these things.
One of the big eye-openers for me was to look at the ACT/SAT writing samples. The expectation is that they will read the rather long-winded prompts and then write extensively on the topic, yet check back on the little details and/or counter-arguments that are also a part of the prompt. Comprehension problems can really throw off the response.
SusanS
The idea that content doesn't matter in reading is more than 50 years old, since I remember hearing "it doesn't matter what you read as long as you are reading" when I was in early elementary school. I didn't understand it or agree with it then and I still don't. It defies all logic and experience to say that reading Beverly Cleary, Judy Bloom, the Babysitters' Club etc. is just good as reading (the original) Tom Sawyer, Swiss Family Robinson, Sherlock Holmes, Anne of Green Gables or anything by Rosemary Sutcliff. The differences in language and structure are stark, and it's impossible to increase comprehension or learn to write well without being exposed to good writing.
ReplyDeleteHaven't read the comments yet, but my experience is: there is no reading in public schools to speak of, let alone reading comprehension. So little reading is assigned here that the PTSA actually put together & voted on a formal proposal requesting that the school assign reading & teach writing.
ReplyDeleteThe other issue I've just discovered is: Reading Workshop.
In addition to Writing Workshop (Lucy Calkins, Lucy Calkins) kids are being put in Reading Workshop, which is, I believe, two kids paired by the teacher to read books and discuss with each other.
They "make meaning" and then perhaps they "reflect" on meaning and that's that.
It's a mess out there and getting worse.
One of my edu-catalogues came today with zillions of titles on reading. One title was: Readicide, which apparently argues that schools are killing off reading.
ReplyDeleteI just found an interview with the author at ednews -- his books may be useful.
I'm already teaching him math, but I guess I'll have to do something about this too. I might as well homeschool at the rate I'm going.
ReplyDeleteDamn straight.
That's one of the reasons we moved C. to Hogwarts. Every time I tried to figure out the "afterschooling" situation for high school, it came down to:
* teach math at home (all math, all 4 years)
* teach Honors chemistry at home (assuming he made it into Honors chemistry in the first place)
* teach physics at home
* teach all writing courses at home
Ed had worked up some scheme to get some friends to go in with us to hire our own private classroom teacher to conduct group tutoring, but I didn't see that happening; most people we know can afford to hire a private tutor & nobody was going to want the headaches.
I reached a point where I was trying to figure out how we were going to afford to keep him in public school.
I guess that means things like "reading circles" and blogging
ReplyDeleteI guess it does
As Susan mentioned, she and I have been back and forth on this issue, mainly because over Christmas vacation C. was to read The Double Helix by James Watson and write a paper about it.
ReplyDeleteThe first paragraph of the paper was a summary, and in his summary C. said that when Watson lands a job in a Cambridge lab no one there will listen to him because he's an American.
Fortunately, I had read the book shortly before C. read it, so I was aware that there was nothing of that nature in it. Almost the opposite, in fact; the book makes the international nature of science clear. (There's a very funny passage on fairness as practiced by the Brits versus the French for instance, and everyone lives in fear of Linus Pauling, who is the bfd of genetic research.)
So I said, "There's nothing in the book about the people in the lab not listening to James Watson because he's an American."
C. said, "I know, but that makes it more interesting."
As far as I can tell, C. doesn't seem to know that a summary has to be exact. Yes, it should be interesting. However, "interesting" can't be arrived at by means of making stuff up.
I was floored.
The truth is: he's never been taught how to write a summary & he may not even know what a summary is, exactly.
Only now is it dawning on me that if math is fuzzy, ELA is going to be even fuzzier.
ReplyDeleteIf you spent 9 years "responding" to "literature," you're not putting in a lot of time figuring out exactly what the text says.
In reading, as in math, there is a right answer.
In the case of The Double Helix, the right answer is not: "They wouldn't listen to him because he was an American."
I love the Six-Way Paragraph books.
ReplyDeleteIf you're interested, get the one on writing in the subjects.
Six Way Paragraphs in the Content Areas Advanced Level
Fantastic links!
ReplyDeleteThanks!
Here's a sentence combining link for you. If you scroll down through the explanations, there are quizzes to practice your sentence combining skills.
ReplyDeletehttp://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/GRAMMAR/combining_skills.htm
let me just go ahead and hijack
ReplyDeletethis hot thread for a second.
i seem to have resigned my KTM membership.
so somebody should maybe post this up front.
George Andrews, the new President of AMS, is interviewed (PDF) in the new Notices. Concerning "issues involving mathematics education, stretching from K-12 through undergraduate and graduate school", he says
"My main interest here is to provide current and future teachers with the mathematics that they need to understand in order to do a good job in the classroom. I would also cast a skeptical eye on a variety of curricular reforms that seem to me very far from the mark in achieving anything and that, just by the confusion they create, actually turn out to be counterproductive."
...to which I propose to add very little. When he stresses the "math teachers need mathematics" note, I find that as heartening as I expect at least some KTM-ers to find his open hostility to over-reaching "reform". Heck, if I had any audacity, I'd probably dare to hope...—Vlorbik
First, the big State tests are 4th grade, 8th grade, and 10th grade. The kids need to make at least 3 out of 5 for the school to "pass". The teachers need to spend 80% of their time getting those 1s and 2s up to 3. There is not enough time to try to get the 3s and 4s up to 5. The only way out is to get your kid classified as "gifted". Then he can be challenged to the max.
ReplyDeleteEveryone knows the SAT is waiting at the end, but the budget dollars are in getting more 3s.
--rocky
The only way out is to get your kid classified as "gifted".
ReplyDeleteThat's only if your school has a gifted program. Unfortunately, GT programs are becoming quite rare. In my district there is no gifted program. If your child is GT you're on your own. They firmly believe they address the needs of the GT students through differentiation-- sheer poppycock.
There is no reason why my son couldn't do extremely well on the state test.
ReplyDeletePoor quality test questions?
(I got told a fair number of times at school that I was "over-thinking" the question when I queried why my answer wasn't right. Bloody nonsense. If you get the wrong answer by "over-thinking" the question was badly written in the first place. And bloody useless advice, no one who gave it ever knew how to not "ovr-think".)
Next :), "teaching to the test" is also a matter of how to spend time. 1. Don't teach stuff that won't be tested. 2. Teach to the lowest level.
ReplyDeleteSuppose some middle schoolers are having trouble with 7+8. Do you spend 5 hours practicing addition and multiplication? No way. They are allowed to use a 4-function calculator on the test, so you say, "get your calculator".
Teach them how to find the lowest common multiple by hitting "=" on the calculator over and over, and comparing lists of multiples. Don't scare your 1s and 2s with cool number theory involving powers of prime factors.
--rocky
"Poor quality test questions?"
ReplyDeleteI printed out a sample seventh grade reading test to study. As with most tests in reading comprehension, one answer could work, but it isn't the best answer. My son might see that answer and look no further. However, that should be an easy thing to check for and correct. He might under-think the problem.
For my son, I think it directly relates to the fact that they NEVER do this sort of detail and nuance work at school. It's all about reading a book and writing something like a book cover review: "I just couldn't put the book down." It's more opinion than summary.
>>This has been a big (and very vague) issue. If my son is required to read 300-400 page books and then write short, general summaries, how does that translate into other needed skills?
ReplyDeleteThe assignment to summarize is part of the elements of fiction knowledge that is usualy done in 7th grade. He should be able to give the plotline (intro, rising action, high point/conflict resolution, and ending) and interpret the theme.
He should also be recognizing the literary devices used and looking up the precise definitions of words and phrases that are new..the assignment won't assess that directly but the work done in class should have prepared him to routinely do so as he reads critically for school assignments. This will help him thoroughly understand the book.
Nonfiction and poetry should also be included this year. A good resource is Great Source's Write Source book for Grade 7.
>>You would be better off reading very short stories or articles and then writing a few carefully crafted paragraphs. That's what the state test expects.
Interesting. NY is asking for both short paragraphs and essays. Short paragraphs and one paragraph essays were taught (rather poorly) in Gr. 4, with essays taught (again rather poorly) in Gr. 6 here. I had to tutor at home, since my visual kids don't understand vaguely worded instructions.
>Obviously, my son's school does not teach to the reading comprehension test. However, their indirect approach doesn't seem to work.
My district sent a prep booklet home that tested the basic comprehension issues (find main idea, use context clues for definition, find details - all skills from elementary) but it didn't include the grade level info - infer, deduce, literary elements, poetry elements, conflict type, point of view and so forth.
>>If I directly teach my son the skills necessary to do well on the test, does that mean I'm trying to trick the test or that these skills aren't real or valuable?
It means you want on-grade level skills taught, but the school is concentrating on basic, which is below grade level. In my district, reading the text isn't even done until 7th grade (and that's in science only)..as it is considered unfair to the included. Discussion is oral and waterd down notes are copied from the board to 'study' from. The required novels for English are all below grade level in comprehension level, but do have a few of the grade level literary devices.
For test prep, my son benefited from justifying his answers to me as we went through a completed test. Why not A? B? C? D? Show me the detail(s) in the text that proves your answer is the best? It was also helpful to show him that he had sufficient time to do the same on the actual test and emphasizing that the teachers are not allowed to call the test early unless everyone is done to their personal satisfaction (regardless of what the basic students want to do with the 'free time').
There may be cheaper solutions but for students on a third to fifth grade reading level, you can't go wrong with getting the reading mastery rainbow edition books (levels IV, V, or VI) from ebay (make sure to get the presentation books). These levels focus on vocabulary and reading comprehension. Specifically, the more difficult vocabulary words are pretaught, the student reads a passage and is asked various comprehension questions as he is reading, and then afterwords completes an independent work assignment with more comprehension questions. the student also learns how to summarize, outline, and find the main idea. each lesson takes about 45 minutes for the student.
ReplyDelete"teaching to the test"
ReplyDeleteThere are different ways to look at this.
1. It shifts resources to the low end.
2. The test becomes the maximum goal rather than the minimum goal.
3. Schools and teachers might work to beat the test.
Do schools avoid direct approachs to teaching to avoid these human traps, or do they do it because it provides a better overall education? Both?
Could a top-down, indirect, thematic, discovery approach work? Maybe, but it tends to appeal to those who devalue specific coverage of content and mastery of basic skills. In my son's case, a direct approach would be successful and efficient. The school's indirect route isn't working. A "teaching to the test" rationalization doesn't apply here. You either value those skills or you don't.
If schools don't try to trick the test or blame it for a need to shift resources and remediate, do they accept that a direct approach works? All teachers cover material and then test the students. Are they teaching to the test? I sure hope so. I never liked classes where the teacher didn't teach everything and then expected you to extrapolate or read his/her mind on the test.
I find this odd. I would rather see timed tests reflect basic skills and knowledge and (not timed) homework reflect analysis and understanding. Many educators want to use tests to check for things that are very difficult to evaluate in a timed test. Since many devalue basic knowlege and skills, they are now pushing portfolios and authentic learning. They don't like content and skills and they can't test for understanding, so they look for some sort of big picture view. They can't tell you what learning is, but they know it when they see it.
To me, all of this goes back to one's basic assumptions about education and learning; top-down versus bottom-up, direct teaching versus indirect teaching, and valuing conent knowledge and skills or not.
One could use discovery learning near the end of a bottom-up approach that emphasizes mastery of the basics. Also, there is nothing stopping a thematic, top-down approach from ensuring content knowledge and mastery of the basics. The big difference between the two approaches is that the bottom-up supporters haven't gotten to the discovery part yet, but the top-down supporters just don't believe in content and mastery of basic skills.
Thanks for the comments everyone. I guess I'm in denial (complaining mode) in the hope that I won't have to do more work myself. I like working on things with my son that are not required, like enrichment. Apparently, the school gets that fun job.
ReplyDeleteWhen I teach him math from a textbook, it all changes. There is nothing natural about it. It's forced, and since I'm his father, the typical student - teacher restraints are not there. Deep down, he knows what I'm teaching him is important, but it's not an easy process at times. I just don't look forward to doing this for reading comprehension. I have to try to fix carefully-defined problems. He will not put up with (does not have time for) a general home-schooling approach on top of his regular school work.
I don't want to even think about what is not happening in his Science and Spanish classes. I have to stick with the basics. Actually, I think some parents would be astounded to know that my wife and I expect more from (for?) our high performing student. An underlying tension exists between parents over those different expectations.
As far as I can tell, C. doesn't seem to know that a summary has to be exact. Yes, it should be interesting. However, "interesting" can't be arrived at by means of making stuff up.
ReplyDeleteMy son had to do a research paper onSteve Jobs in 6th grade. His thesis: "Steve Jobs' parents wouldn't have given him up for adoption if they had known how successful he would turn out to be."
Steve, the good thing about teaching reading comprehension is that it involves mostly the student reading which he is going to do anyway. You just need to ask a few questions and review the independent work. It is very different than math instruction.
ReplyDeleteSteve H - I don't think that printing out a sample test and reading through it is as effective as looking through the answers your son gave to the actual test he took and asking him why he gave them.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I suspect that you don't have the actual test and his actual answer sheet, which makes figuring out the cause of his problems practically impossible.
"Although I suspect that you don't have the actual test and his actual answer sheet, which makes figuring out the cause of his problems practically impossible."
ReplyDeleteVery true. I was just thinking about that in relation to an email I got from Catherine about how test results can vary based on just one or two problems. Our state test for reading consists of 11 questions; 9 multiple choice and 2 short writing responses (a few paragraphs). Students read two short articles or poems and answer the questions. However, the state report card is broken down into 5 or 6 categories with maximum point totals that add up to 97.
The obvious question is how (on earth) do they translate 11 questions into 97 possible points. I can see some sort of breakdown for the writing responses, but there is not much you can do with multiple choice. Perhaps you can infer certain things based on which wrong answer they picked, but I think that's a stretch. It could be that my son's poor mark could be more related to the writing responses.
As you say, I don't know and I can't see the actual test and how it was graded. But this doesn't stop the school from looking at the statistics (even one level further away from what's going on) and deciding what to change.
To be safe, I have to check it out myself. Knowing my son, I think it has to do with his desire to read fast and ignore the details. I can talk to him about overall concepts and themes of a book, but many of the details are quite fuzzy. These tests, however, are all about details and nuance.
Steve,
ReplyDeleteWould an on-line Alg. I course work for your family? EPGY, Thinkwell and AoPS usually get good reviews. It might take some of the stress away.
The reading comprehension test prep goes pretty quickly for a student that enjoys reading. Learnatest.com's "8th Grade Reading Comprehension Success" was the most useful prep book we found b/c it included the comprehension topics the school didn't (word choice, style, tone,implied main ideas, implied causes, and implied main effects). The answer key includes 'why' in many cases - meaning the student can work though it with minimal parent involvement.
OT to all mathy people - check out the old NY Regent's Tests here - the archives go back to the 1860s:
http://www.jmap.org/htmlsupport/JMAP_HISTORY.htm
"Would an on-line Alg. I course work for your family?"
ReplyDeleteI'm teaching him algebra from the Glencoe book at home and that's working fine. As for reading comprehension and writing, I'm still trying to define the problem. It could be that the state reading (writing) test is too short and sensitive to a few mistakes, but I can't assume that.
I really don't want to add too much to his loaded schedule, so I have to understand and target the problem carefully. My son won't put up with a general approach on top of his school work. I will have to pull out a few of my old sample SSAT tests give him a timed test. That's the only way I can judge for myself what is going on.
He took the SCAT test a couple of years ago for the Johns Hopkins CTY and the results were fine. (Their courses are expensive.) I'm just thinking how I can approach the subject of having him take some other tests (SSAT, ISEE, SAT, or ACT) just for practice. As you know, it's often not what you do but how you do it. This is harder because the school is giving him great grades.
It is tricky since they're older now. (I think your son is one or two years behind mine.)
ReplyDeleteAs far as taking the ACT, it did reveal a lot about where exactly my son was academically. I just made sure he knew that he was to just do his best, no pressure. Since he knew that the average 7th grade (talent search kids) math score was 17 and the average reading was 19, he made it his goal to try to at least hit those numbers. But, my attitude was that if he bombed it didn't matter because this test is for high-schoolers. This is just for practice.
The one thing to think about (that I didn't at the time) is that when they go to take either test, odds are that they will be one of maybe a few middle schoolers. My son was a tad freaked out at being the only kid there.
When we took it again in the spring for the talent search, there were a ton of younger kids. I could have just signed him up on my own at the same time as the talent search, but I really didn't think he'd be the only one.
But, he's one of those kids that notices things like that and gets a bit nervous. I imagine some kids wouldn't be bothered.
As far as approaching him about it, my son's first reaction was total panic like I had lost my mind. When I told him that this was regular practice in a lot of schools (his tutor's school, a gifted magnet in Chicago, has over 75% of their 6th graders take both ACT and SAT, and they continue to do it.) I also had found out that that some of our neighboring schools sent kids to take it, and some sent quite a few kids.
Then, he started to think of it as kind of cool taking a big kid's test.
I don't know if that helps, but that's what worked for me.
SusanS
"I don't know if that helps, but that's what worked for me."
ReplyDeleteThank you Susan. Your comments are very helpful. I will ask around to see if anyone is having their kids take the test. SAT and ACT are the big goals and what better approach is there than a direct one.
(My son is in 7th grade.)
"(his tutor's school, a gifted magnet in Chicago, has over 75% of their 6th graders take both ACT and SAT, and they continue to do it.)"
Wow, 6th grade! You know, many parents around here would consider that really weird. It would generate nasty thoughts equivalent to those applied to parents who push their kids in sports. It's kind of like giving kids steroids. Cheating. It makes people think that you are depriving them of a proper childhood. Someone made that comment to me when we sent our son to a private school in second grade.
Johns Hopkins CTY requires a qualifying score on either the SAT or ACT from 7th grade onward for admission to their programs. I was a little surprised at first but the more I thought about it, the more sense it made. What better way to get over the hype surrounding these tests than to make it old hat? Even better, when taken this early it's an above level test that allows a student to keep from hitting the ceiling of a grade-level test and see what he's capable of. And you're right, what better approach than taking it head on?
ReplyDeleteWow, 6th grade! You know, many parents around here would consider that really weird
ReplyDeleteAround here, too. I was alone (again.)
What was fascinating was to find out that, occasionally, our school did send people to take it. Other neighboring schools did, too, but there was some kind of hush-hush aspect to it. They were gatekeepers of sorts. Very strict ones.
Concernedctparent,
You just reminded me why I looked into it all in the first place. When our state tests came back in the 6th grade, my son's math score was the 95th percentile. Normally, I wouldn't have paid too much attention, but I had friends whose kids were a few years behind in math scoring in the 99th percentile. It didn't make sense. When I called Northwestern's CTD about it, they said exactly what you said about the ceiling on the state tests.
This made sense because in the fifth grade he was in algebra 1 at the middle school. There probably wasn't much algebra on the fifth grade state tests. And our state tests like to see charts and drawings for problems that many smart kids can do in their head.
Still, I was worried that if he slipped one more percentage point it might affect his placement.
The first time I only had the scores sent to me. Most of his scores clustered in the lower 20's (composite being 23/ math-24.) This actually qualified him for all of Northwestern's science and math classes, and most of the LA ones. In the spring, we took it again. Everything went up a bit (composite 24), the math score jumped to 29. That earned him a high scorer medal from Northwestern.
Since then, many have asked for the scores. The high school wanted to see his science and reading to see if he would qualify for honors bio. He did. We've heard from many math camps we didn't know about, and tons of schools have sent us brochures about their programs. The local private school we're looking into wanted to see them.
The funny thing about the math score jump was that we didn't use a tutor that time. He just did some practice tests out of a prep book. However, he had spent months doing MathCount problems. I have no idea if that was a factor, but it might have been.
SusanS
When my son was in fifth grade, he applied to Johns Hopkins CTY, but at that age, it was the SCAT test. He went to a place that had a lot of computers and took a timed test by himself. I heard that they expected kids to take the SAT starting in seventh grade and was surprised. He got in but he never did any programs. They were too expensive and he would have to do them on top of his regular work.
ReplyDeleteThe private school he was going to at the time deliberately withheld the information that our son qualified to take the test. They used to be affiliated with the CTY, but then dropped it. We found out from another parent about the program. When we questioned the (new) headmaster, he gave us a story that he had difficulties with some kids at his old school. They wanted to jump up a grade and they weren't ready. So, in other words, he wanted to avoid all potential problems by not telling parents of the opportunity, even if they wanted to do it all on their own. Incredible! When cornered, it didn't phase him. They still probably don't tell parents about the opportunity.
Part of it was that he didn't want to set a precedent and have to deal with exceptions in a small school. He had one student doing an advanced online math course and he didn't like the scheduling headaches it caused. I never knew what the issue was. Just have them go to the library during that class and get online. I really think he just didn't want to deal with exceptions.
The philosophy in many private schools (like this one) seems to be that since all of their kids go on to tony prep schools and "do well", they really don't have to provide more. They are doing enough. This comes from a school where some fifth graders in my son's class had trouble with adding 7+8. The fifth grade teacher couldn't offer more for my son because she had her hands full trying to get the other kids (from affluent families) up to speed. She ended up getting through 65% of the material in Everyday Math and then, in a letter to parents, declared victory over critical thinking and problem solving. I should see if I still have that letter.
So that's when our son came back to our public school. There might have been better private schools somewhere else, but I didn't want him spending two hours on a bus each day. Also, our public school princpal was now being much more flexible, especially for kids as they get into 7th and 8th grades. The argument of differentiated instruction can work both ways. At some point, (and they know it) in-class differentiation falls apart. (I think it never works in the first place.) We were able to get our son pushed up a grade in math. She even offered to let him skip a grade. We didn't do that. We weren't looking for faster, but better. They weren't offering that. So now I'm teaching him math and trying to figure out how to understand and solve his reading comprehension and writing problems on top of doing all of his regular work. That might have been slightly better at the private school, but not for $15,000 - $20,000 per year. Unfortunately, the school was changing from one that valued academics to one that focused on image and offering a guaranteed pipeline to the major prep schools. All I can say is that many prep schools must be populated with quite average students who have parents with lots of money. You can't judge a K-8 private school by where the kids go afterwards. Below the top tier, there are many prep schools where the lower end is populated because of money, not academics.
My older son (now a 10th grader) took the ACT as a 7th grader. We were both shocked to find out that he was only able to complete 1/2 of the reading comprehension portion. His comprehension was fine, but his speed was dismal. This was not something that had interfered with his schooling up until that time.
ReplyDeleteIn the end it turned out it was a visual problem--something to do with the saccadic eye movement--and after half a year of vision therapy he finished the whole test the next time around.
I'm really glad he took it early!
"We were both shocked to find out that he was only able to complete 1/2 of the reading comprehension portion."
ReplyDeleteThat's a good point! Our son tends to do things methodically (slowly). He also has problems reading books quickly, but he can go fast if he likes the book. Since the school never pushes time limitations on tests due to full inclusion, he doesn't run into this problem. I know he has no clue how to budget his time, and since the state test has two writing questions, I can imagine his progress would slow down to a crawl. His writing has to be just right.
Well, that should be an easy thing to check. There's nothing like a direct approach to figure out what's going on.
My son didn't finish anything the first time he took it. I was shocked by that, but then realized that I had been pretty slack about checking his time when he practiced. We did talk about checking the last minute and making sure that he guessed at the rest of them (you can do that with the ACT and no penalty.)
ReplyDeleteThe next time he took it, he finished most things and only had a couple of problems to guess.
The fatigue factor is another problem for kids that young, which was another reason we passed on the ACT writing and the SAT (longer and you have to do the writing portion). I was really only interested in his math score.
It's true, they never practice any of these things in school, so it comes as a complete shock. The second time he took it, he was so much more relaxed about it all.
SusanS
Steve H-
ReplyDeleteI’m currently home schooling my 5th grade son using K-12 curriculum. I’m pleased with the content coverage, but not so happy with the composition lesson delivery. I wanted something with smaller bite size lessons with repetition and mastery. K-12 Comp. assigns major writing tasks every week- not necessarily bad, but certainly overwhelming and there is little in the lesson to get the student to mastery, other than the fact we are writing a ton. We have many bouts of tears and shouting.
I ordered Engelmann’s Reasoning and Writing SRA books levels C-F from EBay (suggested by someone in the comments above) in hopes of finding something better. I thought these books might be close to what you would be looking for. The books contain some of the following types of exercises:
Short reading passages with questions to be answered based on the paragraphs.
Sentence combining
Focus on sentence structure containing specific details vs general statements.
Logic drills, getting students to focus on evidence, and refuting errors in logic.
Outlines for argument sentence structure- which is drilled repeatedly
My son scored in the 99th percentile on a reading test this fall, but it was interesting how he was not able to reason out the simple arguments in the first lessons of the level F Reasoning and Writing book.
N hasn’t been taught how to argue a specific point based on evidence.
Our K-12 reading program has done a good job of pointing out conflict between characters, and emphasizing compare and contrast situations. The program also walks the students nicely through answering essay questions on the unit exams, though my son would certainly falter without the leading questions. It took a month or two for my son to actually focus on answering the question asked, and not floating off in some other direction.
Hopefully Reasoning and Writing will be a successful intervention for my son. Now I just have to figure out how to work in the DI writing curriculum.
Jo Anne C.