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800 - critical reading; 750 - math; 590 - writing
These are the scores obtained by the son of a friend of mine when he took the SATs for the first time this year as a high school junior. I should mention that he's no longer a high school junior: a few weeks ago he decided to drop out of school because he found it too boring. (The school in question is one of the very top public high schools in Philadelphia). He hasn't taken the PSATs, or done any test prep whatsoever. Nor, as of yet, has he taken any SAT IIs.
So here's the question: given this boy's current scores, would it be a good idea for him to retake the SATs?
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23 comments:
I would not re-take the SAT in that situation but would look for some way to validate writing ability outside of a standardized test. Maybe taking a college-level writing course?
Dropping out of H.S. would be a big black mark, so I would encourage him to homeschool for 12th just to earn his diploma. In a homeschool situation, he could study topics of interest, maybe using Coursera or MIT Opensource.
Agreed, don't retake it, but look at writing courses at the local community college. That might be the best way for him to prepare for college in general, having dropped out, but he'll need to find out what the requirements are for the local cc's.
A lot of colleges would be reluctant to take on a dropout with a 590 writing score. The other scores are quite good.
If the kid were my son, I'd recommend taking some writing classes, as the writing score is way out of line with the other scores. (Actually, my son is likely to have scores like that when he takes the SAT next year---and I do have him in weekly sessions with a writing instructor/therapist, since he does have to find a way past writers' block if he plans to do college and grad school.)
His scores could just as well go down if he takes the exam again -- the SAT has a fairly wide confidence interval.
If he plans to attend a "fancy" school, he'd best do something pretty awesome between now and the time he applies. The best schools take great pride in the fact that almost 100% of their students graduate within four years and that their dropouts tend to be people like Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg.
The homeschooling options is (in most places) open only to those students lucky enough to have a parent with a high school diploma. If that is the case for this student, then that is a wonderful privilege and a great option to have. He can study on his own and take some AP exams while applying to colleges.
(Will the schools accept him without an "official" diploma, though?)
Or, maybe he can find another school to attend his senior year?
What would be the downside to taking the SAT again? Is the downside for the student or the college? What happened with the writing score? Is this a known issue or a bad day?
"...a few weeks ago he decided to drop out of school because he found it too boring. "
The parent(s) let him do that?!?
This is the bigger problem, I think. If my son was really that bored with high school, I would only let him drop out if he had an explicit plan, and that plan would have to require a lot more effort. If he objected to that, then SAT scores aren't going to help him.
Exactly why is he bored? What makes him think that he won't be bored in college, especially in the first year or two when most have to take all of the general courses? I remember the really bad sociology and economics courses I had to take. What about the area he wants to major in? It's easy to get bored there too. I hated thermodynamics. I can still see those steam charts.
His scores for Math & CR are excellent. There are a few things he should consider. Re-entering school and checking into Dual Enrollment at a local community college. He'll be more engaged, less bored, and be able to prove/improve his writing.I've noticed many cities now offer this, and classes are usually free for the high school student.
Definitely advise him to take the CC courses BEFORE earning a diploma/credential(e.g. CAHSEE/GED). I wish I had been informed of this. Taking these courses post diploma means one would be in the transfer admission pool (very low acceptance rates, lower financial aid, etc.)
Most colleges don't put a ton of weight on SAT writing scores. However, most will place a ton of weight on the fact he dropped out. His boredom with HS will not be a good admission story.
"Will the schools accept him without an "official" diploma, though?"
Most don't require a diploma/GED/HS credential, especially top schools. However, all bets are thrown out the window if you drop HS for non-emergency reasons. It's just not looked favorably upon.
Does he plan to attend college? If he doesn't, there's no point taking the SAT again. It might be better for him to find something else to do for a couple of years.
If he does want to attend college, he should take the SAT again. The writing section can improve radically from one sitting to another. My eldest improved her essay score by writing more directly and simply.
Part of the writing score is multiple-choice, which I think is grammar-based, and the other part is the essay. The SAT score report should break down the writing section into multiple choice and essay grades.
With score choice, he could bomb the CR and M sections on the second try, but if he radically improved the writing section, he can present a superscored SAT. Some colleges require a candidate for admission to report all scores. Even then, though, improving a writing score from one sitting to another will only help him.
Nevertheless, dropping out of "one of the top public high schools in Philadelphia" is a huge red flag. His test scores lead one to believe he's quite smart. All competitive colleges have experience admitting students who are smart, but don't have the discipline to complete a degree. It is rumored that bad grades and high test scores can make college admission difficult. I don't think high test scores and dropping out will help his college chances.
There's also the level question to consider. If he dropped out because it's "boring," then he'll probably flounder in an "easy" college, where his test scores would be significantly above the norm. He'd probably have better chances getting a degree in a college with competitive admissions. Dropping out doesn't help his case.
If I were his parent, I'd urge him to attend high school. I'd even try to bargain with him, to attempt to get him to regard it as a job. As youth unemployment is so high right now, what's his alternate plan?
Just brainstorming here. Would he consider changing schools? Can his parents pay tuition to a private school?
I see on the SSAT.org website that the Solebury School is on the Schools Currently Considering Applications list: http://www.ssat.org/membersearch/scca/fall#USAPennsylvania. They list openings for boys boarding and day, grades 7 - 12.
His SAT scores could show the school that he can do the work. The school website claims it's a progressive school, which could mean almost anything. As a private school, they aren't required to align the curriculum with state tests, which might get rid of the boredom factor.
Just brainstorming here. Would he consider changing schools? Can his parents pay tuition to a private school?
I see on the SSAT.org website that the Solebury School is on the Schools Currently Considering Applications list: http://www.ssat.org/membersearch/scca/fall#USAPennsylvania. They list openings for boys boarding and day, grades 7 - 12.
His SAT scores could show the school that he can do the work. The school website claims it's a progressive school, which could mean almost anything. As a private school, they aren't required to align the curriculum with state tests, which might get rid of the boredom factor.
Given the student's strengths in reading and math, I'm assuming they are also talented in science reasoning. They should take the ACT, as that would means reading, math, and science (which is a part of the ACT) would be easy for the student and increase the percent correct overall relative to the SAT.
I glanced over the information on homeschooling in PA at the HSLDA site and it appears that if the student is enrolled in a cover school, then the parent does not need a high school diploma in order to homeschool. It would presumably cost something to enroll in a cover school, but the flip side would be a diploma from the cover school and a better chance at attending college than if the student remains a dropout.
The ACT with writing also tests writing.
He may not be weak in writing. He may not have written an essay which would score highly according to the SAT scoring rubric. The two are not the same thing.
A weakness in grammar would show up on both the ACT and SAT.
However, his score in reading and math on the SAT put him into the top percentiles on the SAT. He has great scores. Do his grades match? If they don't match, that can make college admission difficult. Changing to homeschooling won't help that, as college admissions officials will assume a parent might be biased in her child's favor.
Gotta agree that the SAT is really the least of the problems! Obviously the CR and M scores are great. The dropping out part is not. On his score report it will break out his writing score from the multiple choice and what he scored on the essay. I wonder if he didn't write an essay. 0s or 1s for the essay could have pulled down the multiple choice score.
If he can take a year to figure out what he wants to do and can then write an interesting, well-written essay (or more) about what he's learned, that's going to count for as much as his scores.
Many schools don't look at the writing score -- or so they say. But it does get reported, they can see it even if they don't look at it.
The ACT has two tests, one with writing and one without. Apparently, there are a number of schools that accept the no writing version, much to my suprise.
The ACT essay is different from the SAT in what it expects from you. I think it's probably easier and more formulaic.
The ACT is also being accepted more on the coasts. I have friends whose kids never had to take the SAT, but got offers from Eastern and Western schools.
SusanS
It depends. Does he want to apply to college next year? Where? Is he even interested in applying to top schools? I agree with everyone who's said that at this point, the SAT is the least of his problems. He needs to figure out what he's going to do to get a high school diploma -- assuming, of course, that he even wants one. If he's the sort of brilliant but easily bored kid who finds high school too constraining and would rather do something more interesting, he should probably take some time off, figure things out, and only THEN apply to college. "I was bored with high school" so I dropped out is not going to impress any admissions officer. "I was frustrated and unhappy so I left school and worked/volunteered, took some community college classes, learned about the world and what I'd really like to do, got some direction, and now am really excited about studying xyz" will make much more of an impression. If by that time he's in a position to be applying to very competitive schools, he can worry about retaking the SAT then. If the rest of the application isn't minimally competitive now, his SAT scores will be irrelevant.
Good Lord.
This is a seriously smart kid.
(Haven't read the thread, but I say 'no way.')
Of course, maybe I'll change my mind after reading.
The lowest SAT essay score is a 2 (getting a 1 from both graders) and the highest is a 12 (6 from both graders). I know that it is possible to get a 560 on the SAT writing while getting a 2 on the SAT essay. The scores here do look very much like someone who gave up on the essay.
"The scores here do look very much like someone who gave up on the essay."
That sounds in character.
This seems like a very smart kid who is making some very serious, life-changing mistakes.
If the family signed up for the online score report, he would be able to see a detailed report of his results, including a copy of his essay. http://sat.collegeboard.org/scores/sat-behind-the-scenes If I read the page correctly, the online score report will soon be available online. The May 5th SAT score report is now available, if he signed up online. They need to log into the "My SAT" portal.
A friend's child didn't write the essay, and scored either a 660 or 680. I wouldn't assume he aced the multiple choice section.
He scored in the 80th percentile overall for writing. I would NOT assume that a kid with high scores on the CR and M sections would automatically score in the same range for SAT writing.
Does his school offer any AP classes? Was he enrolled in them? If he was not enrolled in them, why not?
Thanks so much for all the feedback!--lots of really good suggestions. I've forwarded this to my friend.
Her son will be attending community college this fall; high school was way too easy for him, but there is also a more concerning issue of motivation. The parents did what they could to discourage him from dropping out, but, in the end, found themselves not able to force him to go.
Thanks so much for all the feedback!--lots of really good suggestions. I've forwarded this to my friend.
Her son will be attending community college this fall; high school was way too easy for him, but there is also a more concerning issue of motivation. The parents did what they could to discourage him from dropping out, but, in the end, found themselves not able to force him to go.
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