kitchen table math, the sequel: letter to the editor

Sunday, October 7, 2007

letter to the editor

at the Irvington Parents Forum:

I thought some list members might be interested in my letter to the editor of
the Rivertowns Enterprise published the other day. Ed B.

At the Irvington school board meeting three weeks ago, the District announced plans to survey the community about our playing fields. The Zogby polling firm, we're told, will undertake the task. This is excellent news and reflects a much-improved tone on the board, whose members have decided to weigh the taxpayers' views and seek professional advice for the campus's drainage problem. Most of us want high-quality fields usable the year round; we just need assurance that they'll be built properly and at reasonable cost. The Board has already gone a long way in this direction—bravo to them.

Once the fields survey is done, the next step should be to poll us about the central mission of our schools: academics. It would be extremely useful to have Zogby, whose fees are surprisingly modest, design an instrument to gather the community's views about
the academic direction of the District.

Do we think students are learning subject matter at a high level, or is there too much emphasis on discovery learning, "differentiation," and other elements of the "constructivist" orthodoxy that school administrators want to impose? Are we using technology effectively, or have we become overly enamored of expensive but academically dubious bells and whistles like SmartBoards, whose replacement bulbs cost $400 apiece?

What do we think about the controversial Trailblazers mathematics program? Should we begin foreign language instruction early in the elementary school years? Are students who
struggle academically receiving the help and support they need? Do we offer enough
advanced courses, and is access to them as open as it should be? To what extent, in
short, do we think our kids are being well prepared for college?

As we plan for higher education, nothing is more important than mathematics, reading and writing. But does that mean math teachers should issue writing assignments, as they do at the Irvington Middle School, taking valuable time away from math? And in English class is there too much emphasis on personal narratives at the expense of summarizing and analyzing texts?

All too often, my NYU undergrads, smart as they are, give me too much opinion and too little analysis. In high school, they're commonly taught to express themselves but less often to interpret texts, examine arguments, and marshal evidence based on what they've learned.

Perhaps views such as mine represent a minority, perhaps not. With Zogby's help
we can find out.

37 comments:

Karen A said...

What an excellent letter!

concernedCTparent said...

Bravo. This letter should/could run in just about anywhere and still be relevant.

LynnG said...

We are in the middle of a whole big fields issue here. I could (but won't) just cut and paste the entire thing, change a few names, and run it here.

Nonetheless, thanks for the model. It will be handy someday.

Catherine Johnson said...

Lynn - Cut and paste whatever you want.

THIS IS IMPORTANT EVERYBODY---ADMINISTRATORS CAN BUY BOOKS FULL OF TEMPLATE LETTERS; THE NMSA GIVES MIDDLE SCHOOL PRINCIPALS FREE OP EDS THEY CAN SUBMIT TO LOCAL PAPERS AS THEIR OWN, WITH THEIR SIGNATURES.

If you want to use the letter verbatim, DO.

If you want to cut and paste, DO.

I'm dead serious about this.

I mentioned in a Comments thread somewhere that we once staged a VERY effective intervention at the NIH by writing a letter like this AND THEN GIVING IT TO EVERYONE AND SAYING "THIS IS YOURS; USE IT AS YOU PLEASE."

Catherine Johnson said...

This letter should/could run in just about anywhere and still be relevant.

Absolutely.

SO: CUT AND PASTE IT INTO YOUR OWN EMAIL & SIGN YOUR NAME (well, actually, you'll probably have to get a college professor to do it - but you can substitute your own workplace experience for that final paragraph.)

Catherine Johnson said...

He's going to write letters all year.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Karen A said...

Anonymous--

It's easy to make comments and hide behind the cloak of anonymity. I wonder if you are the same anonymous who lurks from time to time for the purpose of making mean-spirited comments without adding anything of constructive value on the merits regarding the topics and arguments that are raised.

If you can defend constructivism in the ways in which it has been raised as detrimental on this blog, then do so.

Anonymous said...

Karen-

"Mean spirited" you say. As I read this blog, that appears to be the rule. As I've read over the archive of this blog, it is filled with mean spirited writing attacking people who do not seem to be represented but are shown from a singular perspective. I have never trusted such one sided points of view nor should anyone reading a blog be so willing to accept them as they seem to be here. I've been reading and studying blogs for several years and am amazed at the harm they do in whatever community they profess to serve.

To the point of constructivsm, the error with the arguement made with constructivism is that there is such a thing as constructivism as a teaching method. Constructivism is a theory of learning and there are strategies teachers engage in that may be supported by constructivist believers. Some of those same methods can also be said to support other types of instruction like direct instruction. It's a rare thing that any teacher, school or district can or would engage in one method. Those that do tend to be forced to address a very distinct clientel that dictate such actions. In most settings I would argue that a singlular approach would ultimately leave a large number of students lost, whether it was constructivist tendencies or direct instruction tendencies. Since schools today do not have the luxury of abandoning kids, which was for so long the norm in public education, they must seek a variety of ways to reach all their students.

Ulitmately the flaw with the constructivist arguements made here seem to be that there is no value to constructivism and only direct instruction is of value. Considering the source of so much constructivist knowledge in this blog is based upon the poor children so readily written about in here I would not begin to value the perspective as worthy research. The trouble with psychology of humans (especially when it pertains to how people learn) is for all the research supporing one side it can be countered with research supporting the other. If someone is going to make such a frequent point to tell people they are PhD's then they should act like it by representing evidence and arguements from both perspectives. Give research findings that show the opposite of what you believe and explain them. Demonstrate you actually understand how and why people actually use constructivism rather than dismiss it. There most certainly are teachers who would misuse constructivist approaches, but the blind faith that direct instruction teachers don't fail thier students is too short sighted for my sensibilities.

There is research that supports all types of instruction for kids is beneficial. Maybe that's because kids don't all learn the same and maybe that's why relying upon a singular approach is not such a wise approach after all, especially for those who are responsible for much more than just their own children's learning.

Catherine Johnson said...

I think I'm going to delete "Anonymous's" comments.

Ed has two Distinguished Teaching Awards; he was nominated for a third 3 years ago by students.

He reads all student comments; responds; adjusts his teaching; etc.

But frankly, Ed is my husband, I love him, my loyalties are to him.

These comments are gone.

Anonymous said...

I dunno, Catherine. These kinds of posts are always revealing. This one's no different.

Catherine Johnson said...

One more thing:

Demonstrate you actually understand how and why people actually use constructivism rather than dismiss it.

This is off-topic.

There is no reason for me to "demonstrate" that I "actually understand" constructivism, because constructivism isn't the problem.

Forced constructivism is the problem.

I am happy for constructivists to use constructivism to teach the children of parents who have made an informed choice of constructivist methodology.

My problem with constructivism - and quite possibly with this Commenter - is political; it is about power, and the exercise of power.

I don't want my child taught "interdisciplinary" courses via "discovery."

I want him to receive direct instruction in the liberal arts disciplines.

Until I have the right to choose an education that accords with my values and goals, I will carry on opposing constructivism and constructivists.

This is politics.

And you know the saying.

Politics ain't beanbag.

Catherine Johnson said...

well....maybe (talking to Susan S)

I dislike the cherrypicking of comments on Ed's courses intensely

Catherine Johnson said...

ok, I'm declaring the "sauce for the goose" comment out of bounds.

Don't like anything about it; especially don't like the "Anonymous" etc.

ok, what I really don't like is somebody attacking my husband.

Forget constructivism!

Hands off me and mine! (I fear the whole Scots-Irish thing has been stirred up....)

The other one can stay.

Unless I start to get really mad...

Redkudu said...

I'm always against deleting comments that aren't flames or trolls. This one seems to be neither. It makes a good point with "There most certainly are teachers who would misuse constructivist approaches, but the blind faith that direct instruction teachers don't fail thier students is too short sighted for my sensibilities."

Any method, however successful, is at risk of the dedication of its practitioners. If we started teaching Direct Instruction today in schools, you'd end up with constructivists teaching constructivism under the radar.

The objective is to develop stronger arguments for better teaching practices - to do that, you have to allow the criticisms to be heard.

Anonymous said...

In 1970 there were 840,000 bachelor degrees awarded in the US. 25,000 of those were in math.

In 1998 1.2 million bachelor degrees were awarded, 12,000 in math.

It seems to me that the approach leaving large numbers of students lost is the more modern one.

A list of people who have opinions that do not coincide with Catherine can be found in the sidebar.

SteveH said...

Darn. I missed the deleted comments!


"Until I have the right to choose an education that accords with my values and goals, I will carry on opposing constructivism and constructivists."

The onus is on the schools to show that it's anything more than opinion. Either that, or allow choice.



"I've been reading and studying blogs for several years and am amazed at the harm they do in whatever community they profess to serve."

And of course, there is no conflict between what is best for the union and what is best for the kids.


"Ulitmately the flaw with the constructivist arguements made here seem to be that there is no value to constructivism and only direct instruction is of value."

Strawman. And untrue.

We've been through this so many times it gets tiring. Theory versus practice. Everybody constructs things, but some like to argue definitions rather than see what the issue is really all about.

In reality, schools hide low expectations behind a veneer of edu-babble.

I'm sorry if this sounds mean-spirited. Give us parents choice and we will all go away and leave you alone.

Catherine Johnson said...

redkudu

I differ on the issue of letting criticisms be heard.

As an aside, the comment left was an attack on the person I'm married to, and I'm simply not going to have that. I won't have it for people I'm not married to, either. Caroline and I set a rule against ad hominem attacks when we first started the blog, and I'm sticking to it.

As to the substantive issue of letting criticisms be heard, I come at that from a different angle.

ktm is, in its way, a "kitchen"; there's a "home" quality; not everyone is welcome. If people can't generally behave the way they'd behave inside a real kitchen, they shouldn't be here.

For me, and I think for others, ktm has also been....a support group?

Something like that.

ktm has been a source of strength, which is a legitimate need. When you engage in education politics, good arguments are only the half of it.

You're completely right, of course, that in order to develop better arguments you must know what your opponent is saying. No question.

But our constructivist opponents do not lack for forums!

Every newsletter that comes home from my district is chock full of constructivist goodies, and no NEWSWEEK cover story on education is without them.

AND - this is mean-spirited! - Anonymous hasn't produced what you would call an exemplary version of the constructivist creed.

So, yes, you're right; one needs to know what one is arguing against.

But I personally (I know this is individual) do my best thinking out loud in a congenial environment of like-minded colleagues & friends.

Catherine Johnson said...

Did I just misspell Carolyn's name?

good lord

Catherine Johnson said...

btw, Ken told me, back when he started D-Ed Reckoning, that one of the reasons he wanted to write his own blog was so he could mix it up with folks.

Ken is WAY better at that than I am.

Karen A said...

Posting constructive or thought-provoking comments is one thing; the post that was removed was just mean-spirited in tone, and served no real purpose.

I would love to have anonymous justify why my kid's third grade teacher saw fit to spend an inordinate amount of class time having the students work on a structures project, all the while I was paying $88/month to Kumon.

My child is not a slow learner, and she gets math conceptually. What she wasn't getting from her teacher was a proper foundation in arithmetic.

I don't think Anonymous really wants to engage in a discussion on the merits; I don't think that's his or her purpose.

Catherine Johnson said...

I don't think Anonymous really wants to engage in a discussion on the merits; I don't think that's his or her purpose.

I have to agree.

The follow-up comment by Anonymous, which is still here, is largely ad hominem in nature. ktm-2 is "filled with mean spirited writing," Anonymous is "amazed" at the harm blogs do "in whatever community they profess to serve," "act like a Ph.D." etc.

These comments concern the character of ktm writers.

Barry Garelick said...

Constructivism is a theory of learning. Correct. And the point has been made many times on this blog that material that we learn is ultimately "discovered", whether presented in direct manner, or indirectly. There is a spectrum of teaching methods with rote on one end and zero guidance/pure discovery on the other. Anonymous is correct in that there is a mix of different types of teaching. However, that is usually a red-herring type of argument that people use to support the so called "balanced" approach in which one day "good" teaching is used, and the next day "bad".

One can lead students to derive the formula for the sum of the internal angles of a complex polygon so that they are using deductive methods. One can do this in a guided discovery method. Or you can have students measure angles of various convex polygons with a protractor and make a chart, and have them make suppositions about what they see, and think that you've accomplished the same thing. The constructivist teacher points to the second method and says "So what's wrong with taking a half hour to teach what could be done in 10 minutes the other way, if students are learning it more deeply?" Are they? Research shows they don't. I'll provide cites if you're interested.

LynnG said...

Barry is absolutely correct about that whole polygon thing. I think my son spent hours (not 30 minutes) trying to create the chart of internal regular polygon angles.

Of course, this was his own fault. he was supposed to read the chapter that would guide him through deriving the solution using deductive reasoning.

He skipped that and jumped straight to the problems. He discovered his way into a black hole.

Eventually he went back, read the section, and completed the chart in a couple minutes with far greater understanding.

I know this is one anecdote and doesn't constitute proof, evidence or research.

Nonetheless, I want choice. I want to pick the schools that align with my own expectations and values. I do not want to pay taxes to support institutions that are unwilling to be accountable for student achievement.

How is that mean-spirited?

I wonder if our anonymous commentator can find a couple telling examples of mean-spiritedness on KTM2?

Tex said...

I'll provide cites if you're interested.

Barry, please do.

Redkudu said...

Mea culpa. I think there was some confusion. I was referring to the anonymous comment which is still up. I did not see the one that was deleted. Must have slipped my notice that another anonymous comment had already been deleted. Based on the descriptions of it though, I'm sure I would have agreed with you.

Doug Sundseth said...

I would probably have left the comment up. It was a mean-spirited attempt to smear Catherine's husband by the use of a few cherry-picked student comments -- probably from ratemyprofessors.com -- but it proved something other than what the troll thought.

The comments amounted to whinging that Ed was actually teaching what was in his assigned books and syllabus. Unlike the situation that the anonymous commenter seems to prefer, however, the student could choose to take classes from a different professor.

Nobody that I've seen here has been in favor of a mandated curriculum. We just want meaningful curriculum choice.

The fact that we would nearly all choose to flee from constructivist, ed-school-infested drones wouldn't prevent anyone else from taking classes from "Anonymous".

Anonymous said...

KarenA, not to "justify" what the third grade teacher emphasized, still less to belittle the importance of learning basic arithmetic, but to shed some light on the issues: it may be that those decisions were not the teacher's, but priorities determined higher up the food chain. I know in my district, teachers are continually reminded to de-emphasize arithmetic in favor of "understanding concepts" (as if the two were mutually exclusive), and projects or other "special" activities may be imposed from above and pre-empt time for other subjects. Sometimes the actual timetable, down to the minute, complete with page numbers and pacing schedules, is determined by administrators.

It may be the teacher is not ALLOWED to spend the appropriate amount of time on the skills you see being short-changed. I don't know if that's true in your case of course, but it is a common phenomenon.

At one school I know of, the principal announced to the parents on curriculum night something like the following," We will not be teaching math facts, algorithms, handwriting, spelling, decoding skills -- that's YOUR job. We will provide children with enriching cross-curricular projects, technology integration, field trips, opportunities for personal research... " (yadda yadda)

Why does he get away with this? Most of the parent commnity are sheep and go out and pay tutors or Kumon to do what the school should be doing, because they are afraid their kid will not make the grade if they don't. It's a well-to-do neighborhood. In a disadvantaged area, of course, schools don't teach the skills effectively either, but there they can blame the kids and parents -- using euphemisms, of course.

What you describe is widespread.

concernedCTparent said...

"We will not be teaching math facts, algorithms, handwriting, spelling, decoding skills -- that's YOUR job. We will provide children with enriching cross-curricular projects, technology integration, field trips, opportunities for personal research... "

GASP. I've seen this happening all around me but for the principal to actually admit it and for the parents not to have revolted upon hearing this is beyond belief.

Catherine Johnson said...

The comments amounted to whinging that Ed was actually teaching what was in his assigned books and syllabus. Unlike the situation that the anonymous commenter seems to prefer, however, the student could choose to take classes from a different professor.

I know!

I thought of that myself....

Nevertheless, ad hominem comments just aren't going to cut it (for me -- I realize plenty of blogs have them and have fun with them).

Catherine Johnson said...

I was referring to the anonymous comment which is still up.

Oh!

right---yes, I thought you were referring to the one I deleted.

Doug's just given a good description of that comment, and I contemplated leaving it.

But - SPACED REPETITION - ktm has built a community based on not doing what other blogs do, which is to welcome anonymous angry people taking swings. (AND I DON'T SAY THIS TO CRITICIZE OTHER BLOGS! FREE SPEECH IS GOOD!)

However, we've not followed the dominant mold.

Barry Garelick said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Barry Garelick said...

Tex:

Here are the cites. I tried to put links in but Blogger cuts them off in the comment window. You can Google the titles though and get to the PDF's of the articles for download:

Anderson, J. R., Reder, L. M. & Simon, Herbert, A. (1998). Radical Constructivism and Cognitive Psychology. In D. Ravitch (Ed.) Brookings papers on education policy (pp. 227-277). Washington, D.C.: Brookings Press
Kirschner, P. A., Sweller, J. & Clark, R. E. (2006). Why minimal guidance during instruction does not work: An analysis of the failure of constructivist, discovery, problem-based, experiential, and inquiry-based teaching. Educational Psychologist. 41(2), 75-86.

Klahr, D. & Nigam, M. (2004). The equivalence of learning paths in early science instruction: Effects of direct instruction and discovery learning. Psychological Science. 15, 661-667.

Mayer, Richard E. (2004). Should there be a three-strikes rule against pure discovery learning? The case for guided methods of instruction. American Psychologist. 59, 14-19.

Karen A said...

Thanks, Barry, for posting these cites. I think this should be a Keeper Comment; it strikes me that these references might be invaluable.

PaulaV said...

Thanks, Barry. These cites have been saved and filed away in my expanding folder on constructivism.

concernedCTparent said...

Thanks Barry. I have a sister in ed school and I am her supplier of subversive material. I figure it's high time for an inside job and these articles fit quite nicely into my "evil" scheme.

Catherine Johnson said...

Fantastic! (the references, I mean)

This is a terrific companion suite to the "cumulative practice" triumvirate.

I've got them pulled to put inside a post up front.