Steve H on vocational education

I asked about education and jobs for students who like math but aren't going to major in math, by which I probably mean students who 'like numbers' or 'like arithmetic'...(I don't want to be more specific than that in a post.)

Here is Steve H:

Actually, the vocational path might be best for students who are not so great in math, but want a degree and a technical education. You might get math courses that are more appropriate for your needs.

See New England Institute of Technology. (www.neit.edu) It's all about getting an associate or Bachelor's of Science degree. It it very well regarded, but not cheap. They are very focused on specific careers. You can get the degree piece of paper AND be trained for a specific career.

Here are some of the careers they list.

Clinical Medical Assistant
Surgical Tech
Medical Engineering Tech
Interior Design
Physical Therapy Assistant
Construction Management
Multimedia and Web Design
Video and Radio Production
Digital Recording Arts Tech
Automotive High Performance
Automotive Tech
Auto Collision Repair
Electronics Engineering
Mechanical Engineering
Game Development & Simulation Programming

I found the course catalog and can find math prerequisites for courses, but I haven't found a list of math courses for each degree. I did find that the Electronics Engineering Bachelor's Degree requires a course called Calculus II.

"The Bachelor of Science Degree in Electronics Engineering Technology is accredited by the Technology Accreditation Commission of ABET,..."

I don't know whether businesses worry about who accredited your degree. Those who know about the school would never compare this engineering degree with one from the state's university, but will that difference matter in 10 years in an area that doesn't know about the school?

and:

I should have asked what you mean by "like math"? Lots of jobs might need people who can put together spreadsheets and not have a fit with empirical equations. That is probably the best venue for these people. You probably won't find a posted job that asks for a spreadsheet guru, but you might be able have a job where you can evolve into that person.

There is also computer-aided design that is in demand by architects and engineering firms. If you are really good at 3D geometric modeling (e.g SolidWorks or Rhino), you will most likely always be in demand. I don't know if you would call that math.

In general, I would make a distinction between those who want to do math and those who want a job which will take advantage of their ability to handle math-like attention to sequence and details. I've met a number of people without degrees who have an amazing ability to handle technical details, some of which involves math.

Vocational Education on Throwing Curves

Finland has done an amazing thing -- embraced vocational ed rather than treat it with disdain (as we do in the U.S.). A new post on Throwing Curves gives some reasons to rethink our national strategy of college for all when we know most won't finish with a degree.

missing voc ed

comment left by Anonymous:

In the district where I now live, many kids go from high school to a technical school. Cosmetology, auto mechanic and other shop-type fields, various IT fields, various medical fields (medical and nursing assistant, surgery tech, radiology or lab tech etc.). Many of those fields used to be offered in high school; now it is up to the families to pay for them afterwards. The cost can be significant; I was told by one medical assistant that her 10-month program cost $10,000. How is that progress? BTW, these jobs not only pay decent wages, but can't be outsourced, either.

I see a need for strong college prep, but some districts also need strong vocational prep. Pretending that all kids should go to college and watering down the college prep curriculum accordingly serves no one well. The military does a great job of vocational education that translates into good civilian jobs.

hands-on

I've always thought there was something important about actually working physically with your hands:

LONDON - British children's brain development is being threatened by their failure to work with their hands in school and at home, said a report released on Monday.

With woodwork, metalwork, craft, music or car mechanic classes dropped by many schools and children wanting to play computer games at home, the UK is becoming a "software instead of a screwdriver society," said the report, commissioned by the Ruskin Mill Educational Trust.

"Working with one's own hands in a real-world 3-D environment is imperative for full cognitive and intellectual development," said the report's author Dr. Aric Sigman.

[snip]

The report cited examples of 11-year-olds with deficits in certain areas of their cognitive development and a decline in the ability of young engineers and apprentices to conceptualize straightforward mechanical problems.

"The findings of this report clearly point to strengthening the role of '3-D' learning and crafts in educational policy-making today," said Sigman.

Working with hands helps develop kid's brains

Temple has been talking about this for years. Her students can't draw (scroll down). By "her students can't draw," I mean her students can't use CAD to make a correct architectural drawing. The reason they can't use CAD, Temple believes, is that they never learned to draw by hand. Older architects who learned to draw by hand and then switched to CAD do fine. It's the younger architects who never did hand drawings at all who are lost.

My sister's husband has seen the same thing. And Carolyn always thought there was something important about hands and math.

Maybe one of these days I'll get around to reading The Hand: How Its Use Shapes the Brain, Language, and Human Culture.

This could be wrong, of course. But if I had to bet, I wouldn't bet on Project Lead the Way.

Bring back shop.