kitchen table math, the sequel: Help for the afflicted

Monday, August 6, 2007

Help for the afflicted



Karen A left this comment today:
Yikes! Somebody needs to stop me! (I'm in major procrastination mode--I'm supposed to be writing a paper.)
This is your lucky day, Karen A!

It just so happens that I, too, have been in major procrastination mode for lo these many moons, and I have found the answer:

the Premack Principle

The Premack Principle sounds like something you already know, but it isn't.

Sure, sure, we all know positive reinforcment is a good thing.

We all know we should put first things first.

What we don't know -- what I didn't know, at any rate -- is this whole business about reinforcement hierarchies. To wit: there are tons of things you don't want to do, and a bunch of things you do want to do, and these things can be ranked.

Then, once you've ranked them, you can pick something you don't want to do -- any old thing you don't want to do, not just the one big thing you don't want to do (in my case: stay up all night and write my book) -- do that one thing; then pick something you do want to do and do that.

And here's the miracle: after you've done this for a day or two, you start to want to do the things you don't want to do.

Not only that, but the Premack Principle works with your middle school child, the one who thinks the problem with parents is they constantly threaten to take away rights from their children.

Seriously.

Take it from Jon Bailey and Mary Burch:
Basically the Premack Principle involves setting up the rules in the house so that the preferred behavior (watching TV) is used as a reinforcer for the nonpreferred behavior (helping with chores).
p. 3
Translation: no "break" after school.

The "break" after school has been sacrosanct around here. C. needs a break after school. That's the concept. He's been at school all day; school is hard; he needs a break.

This summer the after-school break made a seamless transition into the after-camp break. C's been hard at work playing tennis all day; he needs a break when he gets home.

Which means C. comes home, plops down on the sofa, and begins playing video games with Christian, leaving me to nag, order, demand, and, yes, threaten to take away rights.

And that's just the beginning. When I finally get him to the table, we have negotiating.

If I do Megawords I'm not doing Vocabulary Workshop
.

If I do decimals I'm not doing word problems
.

Etc.

That's all over now.

Last Tuesday or Wednesday, I squelched the after-camp breaks. By the weekend things were running so smoothly that on Saturday morning C. came into my office at 10:30 a.m., sat down, sighed, and said, "What do I have to do?"

Then he pitched a fit, but still. By noon he had done everything I wanted him to do.

He was amazed. He kept saying to Ed, "I'm done with my work."

And Ed kept replying, "Doesn't it feel good to get it over with?" (great attitude, that!)

Sunday morning I got up and started awarding myself mental points for doing things I didn't want to do. I was banking my points, saving them to spend on doing things I did want to do. This turned things I didn't want to do into things I did want to do (points!) which got a little confusing because if I wanted to do something I didn't want to do because I would get points if I did it, didn't that make it something I did want to do after all and thus something I shouldn't be getting points for doing?

This put me in mind of the possible urban legend about the one-question essay exam some Harvard psych professor was said to have given his class, namely: what is a stimulus?

I decided not to worry about it. I was tearing around the house looking for things I didn't want to do that I could go ahead and do right then and there before we had to get to church. Points!

En route to church I explained the Premack Principle & the point system to C, who took it to heart at once.

Then, in church, we wrangled over how many church points (church being down there with word problems in C's reinforcement hierarchy) he was now losing for rudeness and failure to attend to the sermon.

When we got back home he had one don't-want-to-do facing him, which was to read a page of the Bible. This task is the result of a negotiation we'd had a couple of weeks before, when C. had said he shouldn't have to work on Sundays, and Ed backed him.* So I said, Fine, you don't have to work on Sunday if you read the Bible, and Ed didn't have the nerve to intervene on that one.

C. also needed to mow the lawn, but since he gets paid to do that, and since it was his idea to start mowing the lawn, lawn-mowing was somewhere in the middle of his hierarchy.

He read one page of the Bible practically the instant we got home.

Then he mowed the lawn.

Then he lay down on the sofa, snapped on his video game, fixed me with the wolfy smile of the victorious, and said, "I have all my play points for the rest of the day."

..................................

I will be back tomorrow with Dick Malott & his online book on procrastination.

Chapter 3: "How to Get Yourself to Write."


* Have I mentioned Ed is Jewish and agnostic? People will do anything not to hear middle schoolers fighting with their moms about word problems.


19 comments:

Karen A said...

I love the idea behind the Premack principle. I actually think it has the potential to be very effective.

Your story about wrangling over church points and which points belong in which category is both hilarious and spot on!

While I prided myself early on in attempting to teach K. to ask questions and seek out reasons, I realized too late how this could backfire in a major way when she began, early on, to seek out reasons for my decisions, and then to argue the fallacy of such decisions on the merits.

That's when I realized the parent exception to the "critical thinking" rule also known as the "because I said so" exception.

LynnG said...

Sounds great. We've been trying everything to finish Singapore Math 5B, practice the piano, and read something other than comic books all summer. Oh, and clean the hamster cage regularly.

Not to mention Webkinz is sucking the air out of the room most days.

I'll have to consider the Premack Principle.

So, you're saying that camp isn't so hard and he doesn't "need" a break?

I wonder if things will continue to work well into the school year, or will the novelty of the system wear off to have limited usefulness in the long run.

I hope you'll update us.

I find that after I do something like this for awhile, it isn't fun anymore and I get a lot of resistance.

But I'm willing to try anything.

Catherine Johnson said...

I love the idea behind the Premack principle. I actually think it has the potential to be very effective.

It's fantastic!

The Premack Principle (the other term is "Grandma's Rule") is one of those God-is-in-the-details things.

Once you add the concept of a "reinforcement hierarchy" you've got a completely different situation from just having a global "first things first" and "rewards are good" rule floating around in your head.

Extremely helpful.

Catherine Johnson said...

While I prided myself early on in attempting to teach K. to ask questions and seek out reasons, I realized too late how this could backfire in a major way when she began, early on, to seek out reasons for my decisions, and then to argue the fallacy of such decisions on the merits.

right!

I think the Premack Principle probably gives you a way around this, because you're reinforcing behavior, rather than simply saying, "Because I said so."

"Because I said so" is WAY not reinforcing.

Catherine Johnson said...

We've been trying everything to finish Singapore Math 5B, practice the piano, and read something other than comic books all summer. Oh, and clean the hamster cage regularly.

Well that's the thing.

I've been watching my "program" for the summer get systematically whittled down by footdragging, negotiations, perseverative challenges ("Why do I have to do this?" "Why do I have to do this?" "Why do I have to do this" "I'm just asking Why do I have to do this?"), triangulation, and all the rest.

The day Ed, who is NOT a religious person and who is Jewish to boot, agreed with Christopher that he shouldn't have to do math on Sunday was the end.

Come on.

Using Grandma's Rule you ATTEMPT to force yourself to "think like a behavior analyst."

Catherine Johnson said...

So far this has absolutely changed my work habits, productivity, etc.

I don't think this would work well with dieting, because the drive to eat is built-in.

But if you're just trying to spend more time writing your BOOK, and less time writing your BLOG, you really can change the reinforcement hierarchy.

I gather from Malott that keeping these things going is the hard part, but that's the hard part with anything.

Catherine Johnson said...

So, you're saying that camp isn't so hard and he doesn't "need" a break?

I wonder if things will continue to work well into the school year, or will the novelty of the system wear off to have limited usefulness in the long run.


Novelty wearing off is going to be a problem. (Possibly not novelty, exactly - probably more like mom's ability to THINK LIKE A BEHAVIOR ANALYST wearing off...)

The great thing about PP is that Ed is completely on board for it. Once you have the idea, it makes perfect sense, and the reward to the household of my doing less nagging, etc. is large enough that Ed'd going to be putting his shoulder behind this particular wheel.

Ed is good about all these things; I don't have a "triangulation" problem.....or maybe I do. Kids are natural-born behavior analysts; Christopher is expert at convincing everyone else in the household that I'm asking too much.

With the PP, everyone knows EXACTLY what he's being asked to do, AND everyone has some optimism that these things can actually happen without constant friction.

Catherine Johnson said...

I find that after I do something like this for awhile, it isn't fun anymore and I get a lot of resistance.

It's already not fun, I would say.

C. just had a couple of days where he was stunned at his level of freedom.

The Premack Principle isn't dependent on being fun; it's dependent on having a parent to make it happen.

Tex said...

The after-school break is sacrosanct around here, also. I have to believe this is a legitimate and probably important activity for the kids.

Which leads me to wonder, what about other breaks? I usually take “fun” breaks throughout the day. Things like surfing the net, watching TV, going through catalogs, etc. Usually, I time myself so my breaks will not exceed the allotted time. I’m actually pretty disciplined about this, and I use my trusty Flylady timer..

Is there flexibility in the Premack Principle to allow for breaks?

Tex said...

For example, if the goal is to do two hours of math problems that day, then there has to be a break somewhere. At least there definitely has to be a break for my 10-year old daughter, probably for most kids?

Tex said...

I should add that managing breaks for a teenager is very challenging.

Hmm, he should be managing his own breaks. I think.

So, I think a few timed breaks would be the answer. It’s starting to sound more complicated. I think I’ve lost the point.

Let me think about this some more. During my next break.

Karen A said...

"Let me think about this some more. During my next break."

LOL!!

Ben Calvin said...

I guess employing the Premack principle means I should remap my software program's option file before I post this.

Oops, too late.

Catherine Johnson said...

Usually, I time myself so my breaks will not exceed the allotted time.

I am a very bad break-offender.

I have to read Malott.

Catherine Johnson said...

For example, if the goal is to do two hours of math problems that day, then there has to be a break somewhere. At least there definitely has to be a break for my 10-year old daughter, probably for most kids?

I'm going to see if I can find something in Malott's book about this NOW.

Breaks are a HUGE issue.

Of course, the basic principle is you NEVER get a break until after you've done something hard.

That's why C. can't have any more after-camp and after-school breaks.

Camp is FUN.

It would be OK to have an after-school break, probably, if he came straight home on the bus.

But he walks home with his pals, buys junk food in town, dawdles on the Aqueduct trail, etc.

By the time he gets home he's had more fun than I had in my whole childhood.

Catherine Johnson said...

I have the Polder timer, from Amazon.

Very cool.

http://www.amazon.com/Polder-212-00-Digital-Vibrating-Audible/dp/B0002EXVIM/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/103-8301603-7903019?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1186532321&sr=8-2

Catherine Johnson said...

What I really need is a timer that beeps every 5 minutes.

concernedCTparent said...

Not to mention Webkinz is sucking the air out of the room most days.

oh boy does that sound familiar!

concernedCTparent said...

Premack Principle, huh? That just may be the missing link around here.

As for the FlyLady timer, I already have one of those and it is in a sorry state of lack of use.... perhaps a new game plan is in order.