kitchen table math, the sequel: Congratulate me

Wednesday, June 13, 2007

Congratulate me

I just ordered the 4th grade Singapore Math textbooks and workbooks (4a and 4b) from ebay. I intend to have my two soon to be 4th graders go through them this summer.

Any advice?
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12 comments:

Catherine Johnson said...

Congratulations!

No advice at the moment...

June 13, 2007 at 7:19 PM
concernedCTparent said...

I've been using these at home (4A/B, 5A/b, and 2A/B). My only advice is you might want to order the answer key (for grades 4-6). It's really inexpensive and it's nice to have a quick reference when checking work. I have to check three workbooks so it helps streamline things a bit.

My kids do the workbooks and we use the textbook for explanation and extra problems on areas where they need more practice. There is definitely a good amount of practice and the challenge builds incrementally and consistently. The order of the lessons is well thought out and one topic progresses to the next.

When a new or more challenging concept comes up in a lesson, they tend to put in a self-checking mechanism (like a puzzle where they match the answers to a letter to spell a word) and it helps children work independently. The lessons don't take very long and my kids do at least one a day. Sometimes they actually ask to do more.

I think you'll like them and so will your children. They do have a good amount of practice and the word problems are fantastic. I love the bar method for solving word problems, and they really start getting increasingly challenging in grade 4.

You did a good thing.

June 13, 2007 at 8:07 PM
concernedCTparent said...

Oh yes, one more thing. This listserv has some good resources including some examples of singapore's method for word problems.

http://wwwfac.worcester.edu/smip/

Congrats and welcome to the club!

June 13, 2007 at 8:10 PM
Anonymous said...

If you haven't used Singapore before you may want to back up a bit and cover the measurement chapters in 3B. Metric and US systems are covered and this skill is used throughout the rest of the series.

June 13, 2007 at 8:58 PM
Anonymous said...

Holy cow! You're just sticking them in there?? Did they test into it?

My advice: brace yourself. It is... difficult... to start in the middle of what is arguably the best math program in the world.

June 13, 2007 at 9:27 PM
Anonymous said...

You should have them take the placement test first. Really. Some folks have problems with the bar models when jumping in the middle.
Also bear in mind that Singapore's grades are about six months behind ours because their school year starts in January. The first grade corresponds to the calendar year in which the child turns seven. In Singapore your kid probably still be in the middle of the third grade. Also, bear in mind that the grading scale is 50% is passing and 75% or better is an A.

I've wondered if by using this kind of grading scale if it doesn't allow them to challenge their brighter students with threatening their A in the class.

The Singaporemath.com forum is a fantastic place for getting support with bar models.

June 13, 2007 at 10:36 PM
LynnG said...

My only advice -- don't obsess on your deadline of reaching grade level by the end of the summer.

Singapore is much harder. Starting in 3B makes a lot of sense -- bar models are introduced in 3, as is the metric (as noted by anonymous).

Some things your kids will fly through and you be on track to meet your deadline. But you'll probably have a few weeks where progress is slow.

If you can let your kids master the material without driving yourself (and them) crazy, you'll get a lot out of it.

I also like to slow down with the "Intensive Practice" workbook. It is much harder and really reinforces skills. But that one can be extremely challenging.

June 14, 2007 at 3:02 AM
TurbineGuy said...

Thanks guys... I will order the 3 set as well.

June 14, 2007 at 3:11 AM
Anonymous said...

Congrats! This is Linda Moran, the Eclectic Educator.

I took three of my kids through Singapore Math, from 2A all the way up to the NEM series at which point I switched them to Saxon Algebra (because I didn't like the Singapore middle school materials), but we're still working in the Singpaore Challenging Word Problem alongside Saxon.

My advice is to backtrack to 3A and 3B, unless you've already given a placement test. And even if they do place into grade 4, you should have 3A, 3B, and their HIG for your own reference.

You'll need to learn along with them. Did you buy the HIG? That's the homeschooler's guide. It really explains the bar diagrams, also known as whole-part diagrams.

Your kids may already understand concepts, but you'll need to use your judgment about buying some manipulatives. You can find them on the singaporemath.com web site. You can find the manipulatives required listed in each HIG, I think.

I strongly urge you to join this message board:

Singapore Math. It's run by the person who wrote the HIGs.

And have fun. I learned as much as my kids did. You'll get a deep understanding of arithmetic, and your kids will get a good ability to do word problems.

Something to be mindful of: Not all kids need the bar diagrams. Baldridge and Parker say in their book about Singapore Math that if your kid can solve the problem another way, don't belabor the bar diagrams. If you have the time, you might want to read their book.

I have one kid that does great with a bar diagram, and another who went from Sinagpore 2A all the way to Algebra without ever once drawing a bar diagram. It's against his religion or something.

Singapore Math is a ride.

June 14, 2007 at 3:28 AM
Anonymous said...

I never found the Home Instructor's Guide to be useful, but I am very comfortable with the math myself. Backing up to 3B is good advice, as learning to use the bar models is essential for 4A and above. Because it is probably quite different from the way they have been taught math up until know, it isn't a bad thing to do a little repetition before moving on to new concepts.

As someone who excelled in math but had never seen a bar model, it took me some time to get used to the method. (In the early days, I often had to solve the problem first using algebra, and only then could I "see" the model that was necessary so I could illustrate it for my child.) The answer key is a good investment (especially since it covers 3 full grade levels) and I love the challenging word problems books. My kids tend to work about a half year behind with the word problems. My oldest is currently working on 6A, and is halfway through the 5th grade word problems. I haven't used the intensive practice books much, but they are great for review specific concepts your child might have difficulty with.

June 14, 2007 at 4:49 AM
Anonymous said...

Rory,

Consider getting the Challenging Word Problems 3 (and 4) along with the others you have bought. They're great.

Also, I agree with the posters about getting the year before. There's an obvious jump in difficulty between 3 and 4. Setting the stage is important.

June 14, 2007 at 5:14 AM
SteveH said...

"Not all kids need the bar diagrams. Baldridge and Parker say in their book about Singapore Math that if your kid can solve the problem another way, don't belabor the bar diagrams."

I agree. I have been going over bar diagrams with my son and there are some problems where bar diagrams are much more difficult than algebra. There are many word problems that are important in the pre-algebra years without having to focus on a bar-model solution to multiple equations and multiple unknowns.

Here is an example from the Primary Math 5A Textbook, page 25, problem 3.

3. The total weight of Peter, David, and Henry is 123 kg. Peter is 15 kg heavier than David. David is 3 kg lighter than Henry. Find Henry's weight.


With algebra, it's very quick to write:

P + D + H = 123

P = D + 15

D = H - 3

Three equations in three unknowns. Writing the equations is simple and solving requires only plug and chug. You need more skills (algebra)than a bar model approach, but it's simple.

For a bar model approach, the easiest way I can see (other suggestions?) is to do a bar model where:

P + (D+15) + (H+12) = 123 + 15 + 12

or

3P = 123 + 15 + 12

It took me quite a while to figure out how to do this with a bar model.

With algebra, I apply the same process over and over. It's automatic. With bar models, I have to really think about how to draw and arrange the bars.

Here is problem 10 from the same page.

10. John and Paul spent $45 altogether. John and Henry spent $65 altogether. If Henry spent 3 times as much as Paul, how much did John spend?

The algebra is trivial. Just start writing legal equations until you have enough.

J + P = 45

J + H = 65

H = 3P

All done, except for turning the crank.

For a bar model approach, the "John" bar is the same for both, and the Henry bar has to be longer than the "Paul" bar, but how do you draw the bars? It took me a while to get the bars drawn, to break the "Henry" bar into 3 equal segments, and then to (ding, ding, ding) realize that the key was to see that two "Paul" blocks equals the difference between $65 and $45 dollars. This was not automatic for me. I can imagine that many kids would never see the 2p = 20 relationship.

There are many other problems that can be done before algebra without resorting to solving multi-equation and multi-variable problems with bar models. There are problems that have to do with percent (markup, discount), DRT, mixture, and work. You can also spend time on units and dimensional analysis.

June 14, 2007 at 9:00 AM

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