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Everyday Math
Fifth Grade
Study Link 10.3
What's My Rule?
Problem 1.
Rule: Subtract 6 from the "in" box.
in out
-----------
-5 -11
8
10
-4
-3
What's my rule? Well, they tell you: "subtract 6 from the 'in' box"
This is at the end of 5th grade and my son's class has to skip lots of material to get to the end. In a letter to parents, the teacher claims that they have made great progress on their critical thinking skills at all levels. OK, but can they add 2/11 + 3/4?
This is not about understanding or discovery. It's about low expectations and less practice.
It also leads to the excuse that the problem is not the curriculum, but the teacher or school. This is only partially correct, but it is used to avoid comparing the details of curricula side-by-side. The school curriculum advisor seems to be looking for any justifications to keep EM. She is very nice and wanted to borrow my copies of Singapore Math, but there is a strong educational bias against curricula that don't talk the talk. I think the underlying theme is that they really think that curricula like Saxon and Singapore Math are too difficult or rigorous for kids. This is covered up with explanations like: "Many kids learn differently." and "We want to focus on understanding and problem solving." They are forced to break the link between mastery and understanding. They think they have found a magic way to remove the math filter without requiring a lot of hard work. They are in dreamland.
My son is in a private school that only offers a weak algebra course in 8th grade. The justification is that many of the kids go off to good prep schools and do quite well. All schools do this, and it covers up lots of problems.
"Our kids hold their own." is a complete cop-out and is not indicative of any sort of critical thinking skills, but some of them really think this is enough.
So, my son is going back to our public school. Things aren't perfect, but there have been some changes in philosophy. They no longer keep everyone together through 8th grade and there is a new 8th grade algebra course. (The new principal has taught with the Dolciani algebra textbook in the past.) They are willing to work with parents, and are more flexible. I could go on about our experiences with public and private schools, if there is any interest.
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21 comments:
Oops. The "in" and "out" columns didn't line up correctly.
Look, some kids (probably a majority or at least 30%) need the rules S-P-E-L-L-E-D O-U-T. Then they need daily practice to remember those rules. The rules are literally beaten into their heads. When they are 90 years old with Alzheimer's they will remember the rules. Some people call it drill and kill. It can be for some kids. That is why proper grouping (achievement, ability, whatever you call it) is important.
So I taught my son how to divide. I assumed the school was practicing and giving more instruction in a scripted curriculum. No, they were not. He doesn't know because he is NOT getting daily instruction.
I wouldn't call him the brightest bulb but with PROPER instruction in his pull out special ed resource room, he is essentially put into an achievement group. He needs daily practice in RULES.
Other kids may only need to be reminded of the rules 1-5 times and it is officially committed to memory. But some of these programs neither teach the rules NOR practice them.
I don't know, I just don't know.
"Look, some kids (probably a majority or at least 30%) need the rules S-P-E-L-L-E-D O-U-T."
The point of "What's My Rule?" in Everyday Math is to guess (and check) what the rule is, given an example for "in" and "out". That is their point; except in this case. They give the kids the rule. In many of EM's What's My Rule? examples, I always like to find many other "rules". So this end-of-fifth grade homework is reduced to subtracting 6 from another number.
"Then they need daily practice to remember those rules."
Not for EM, which gives kids only a few examples daily. They teach few real rules and they don't provide practice. Besides, subtracting 6 from a number is not a general math rule.
OK, but can they add 2/11 + 3/4?
This, apparently, is not an important skill for students entering middle school. As long as the teachers maintain that they have made great progress on someone’s vague notion of “critical thinking skills”.
Oh my gosh, this is depressing.
STEVE - PLEASE TELL US MORE.
I'm very interested in the public/private comparison.
Have you read Mary Eberstadt's article saying that private schools have traditionally been progressive?
Ed and I have been talking about this a lot.
We're pretty sure that private schools "get away with" progressive ed for 3 reasons:
* accountability to parents - I went to the Masters School presentation and it's clear that they NEVER "cover" material and move on - they make sure the students have learned it
* tiny class size - another friend who went says that her impression is that the teacher-student ratio is so tiny that the teachers actually are creating projects tailored to individual children
e.g. the teacher at Masters showed her a Monopoly game the kids had made that had taught them math (something like that)
she said she would have thought it was ridiculous, except that her own son, who is mathematically gifted, had spontaneously made his own highly intricate Monopoly game that was all about math!
* this is Ed's view: private schools make progressive ed work because of their "elitism" - they try to hire only people with Ph.D.s in the disciplines, and people with Ph.D.s in the disciplines are by definition trained in higher order thinking and disciplinary methodology
When you have a person with a Ph.D. in history teaching history, as opposed to a person with an M.A. in education, you end up teaching real history in spite of yourself
this end-of-fifth grade homework is reduced to subtracting 6 from another number
Yes, exactly.
Wait 'til I post some of Martin Brooks' examples of differentiated instruction. You're not going to believe it. These are examples of GOOD instruction.
What I'm seeing now is "the emporer has no clothes"
Brooks book is pretentious AND he's talking about nothing.
Pretentious language masks the fact that the teachers aren't teaching anything.
(Brooks is the super just hired in Ridgewood.)
Yes, tell more. Collect your thoughts and share them.
By the way, what textbook is the public school going to use for the 8th grade class?
I am looking at that public v. private school decision in the face. I'd love to hear more.
At this point, we've decided to pull my 9th grade son out of his science and engineering magnet school. We're fed up with the crayola curriculum masked by rhetoric. He's bored.
Here's what tipped us to private:
amazing teachers. Really amazing. Parents participated in "typical" lectures. Teachers show us exactly what they do and what their methods are.
openness. They have to convince us to pay them tons of money to send our child there. The schools do not mask their performance.
This may be unique to high schools where statistics are there -- how many 5s on last year's AP Calculus, how many National Merit Scholars, average SAT scores. They have the numbers to back up what they say about achievement.
But I have 2 younger children and the public school is changing drastically for them.
I don't know if I can wait until they get to high school, so I'd love to hear about private elementary.
"We're pretty sure that private schools "get away with" progressive ed for 3 reasons:"
Don't forget student body selectivity.
The private high schools we considered base entrance to a large extent on performance on SSAT.
When you start with an above average group of kids, progressive education concepts may be less damaging.
Yes, Steve, I am interested. Please share!
"Yes, tell more. Collect your thoughts and share them."
I'm putting them together.
"By the way, what textbook is the public school going to use for the 8th grade class?"
The principal wasn't sure of the exact name, but it's the same one used by the high school for their honors course. It has to beat the CMP+algebra topics they had before. Besides, the new principal taught 8th grade math with Dolciani before. Get the right people and things can change. Get the wrong ones and there is nothing you can do.
crayola curriculum masked by rhetoric
Brilliant!
I've mentioned at KTM the possibility of a move back to the public schools before, but now it's official. I just got an email from the head of school still pushing us to stay, but it seems that he still doesn't quite "get it". I don't think you can generalize too much from my experience, but it may help.
We moved our son after first grade in the public school, which was just about a wasted year. He already knew how to read, and he could do any of the math they were teaching in their MathLand curriculum. (That's not saying much!) The only extra work was the work we gave him at home. We worked with the teacher to have him read more advanced books. He wrote book reports at home and handed them in. The teacher didn't look at them. He was just a student that she didn't have to worry about. By the way, she was the teacher who said: "Yes, he has a lot of superficial knowledge." when we naively told her that our son loved geography and could find any country in the world. She was also the one talking about looking for "voice" in the writings of the first graders. OK. This is just first grade, but it didn't look any better in the following years - low expectations and a poor curriculum. The problem was directly related to full-inclusion and a fuzzy idea of what K-4 is all about. The main issue was that the future didn't look good.
So off he goes to private (oops, independent) school for second grade. Higher expectations and more challenge. That's good. Everyday Math. That's bad, but it was a whole lot better than MathLand. Everything is a trade-off. By the way, this is a private school that seemed to be more interested in academics than image. Many of the parents were there for the same reasons we were. However, the school only goes up to 8th grade. This introduces an interesting dynamic when the kids get to 7th grade. I first encountered this when his second grade teacher said to us (in kind of a half-joking way): "Once an independent school kid; always an independent school kid."
SSAT. Application to prep schools. Very few, if any, kids go back to the public high school. Boarding schools: $30K++, Day students: $25K++. This is a major selling point for private elementary schools - they are the fast track to the private high schools. If you thought that going back to public high school (with their honors track) was a reasonable possibility, it becomes extremely difficult as the child gets to 8th grade. Now that my son is at the end of fifth grade, I've noticed a definite change in both kids and parents. It's the assumption that you can't go back - that it's a step backwards. Parents who came to the school for better academics now see it as more than that. But kids do go back to the public high schools, so the question is whether the academics at private schools are better than public schools. My answer is yes for the lower grades and I'll find out for the middle grades (6-8). Another parent was quite happy doing exactly what we are doing. She thought that her kids learned how to work hard and get assignments done on time in the early grades. they didn't lose that when they came back to the public schools.
So, does something change when you get to middle school? Well, at our public school, they finally have someone who believes in and responds to demands for higher expecatations and grouping by ability. There is still the issue of the school not doing enough to make sure that more kids are prepared for the more rigorous courses. I can't condone that approach, but the rigorous courses are better for my son. They are willing to bump him up to 7th or 8th grade math. In the early grades, that is taboo, but once the grouping by ability dam is breached, then a lot of options open up - IF - the school is willing. The school now offers (to some students) access to on-line courses and time during the day to work on them. The people running the school can make a big difference - one way or the other.
The problem for small private schools in the upper grades is resources. You don't have many students and the budget is limited. They assume that all students are better than average, so they don't want to be flexible. In reality, the students are not really much better. The joke is that they give entrance exams. The only real entrance exam is the ability to pay. Kids were going into fifth grade not knowing their times table. We went in looking for more, but the teacher had her hands full. Private schools have the same need for grouping by ability, but the school doesn't have the money to do it - and, to some extent, they don't think they have to. Private high schools are more competitive and should be at a higher level, but not necessarily. Lots of lower-ability kids get in anyways and the schools don't have the resources to separate them by ability. There are lots of reasons to like larger schools, but many like the atmosphere of a small school. You pay a price. This is true for public and private schools.
Another change happens in private schools when you get to grades 6-8. You become programmed. OK, I'm overstating it a little bit. At my son's private school, sixth grade starts the mandatory music and after-school sports. This continues through most private high schools. It's mandatory because they need the warm bodies - oops, because they think it's an important experience for all kids. So they end up with kids in sports and band and chorus who don't want to be there and it makes things worse. In large public schools, these things are optional, kids want to be there, and they work harder. There are more kids to choose from, so these activities are better than the private schools, unless the private school is large.
So, in sixth grade my son was looking at leaving the house at 7:30 and not getting back until 5:00 or 5:30. Then, it's supper, homework, piano practice, and bed. He could do it and he would do it well. But. But we don't want him do do things because he has to. We don't want his day programmed from morning to night. This would only get worse in high school. He is a good enough student to get into a school like Phillips Academy Andover. Over one thousand type-A A-students. What could be better. The fast track.
So now we're off the fast track. No beeline to Yale or Harvard. Actually, I'm not being fair. There are some very nice prep schools and you would be a fool not to consider the options. (I remember even my parents talking about sending me to Loomis-Chaffee in CT - never happened) But we aren't the boarding school types and we don't like the idea of our son being a day student at a boarding school. There are some Day Schools, but they are much farther away. So, in reality, we don't have much of a choice. Then again, the public high school has a well-regarded honors track. A friend of mine, who teaches at a nearby (very good) academy, says that there's not much difference between their courses and the honors courses at the local high school. The difference is that the academy works hard for all students, and they don't let any of them slip through the cracks. Almost all go to college. Still, it's a small school and they can't offer the same things as a large, public high school, like an orchestra filled with students who want to be there.
In many ways, large is better than small, and there is no guarantee that private high schools are worth $30K a year. There is no general answer. For many, the cost decides it all. Otherwise, it's all about choices. Unfortunately, you have to make the choice without enough information.
Thanks, Steve,
We're constantly trying to determine what to do for high school and your post helps break down the different issues and considerations. Please post on this anytime.
PS--That first grade teacher was a trip.
Fascinating view from within a private school community, heading back out into the public school world...
We're still considering our middle school options. And yes, I know it's almost summer.
The local public middle school is very posh, and very good but on their own progressive terms, and I don't know if I can stand three years of project homework and the opportunity cost that represents.
I agree with you that bigger can be better because bigger schools can create room for subject matter specialists, i.e. enthusiasts, in math or history or music.
Too bad elementary schools can't yet have separate teachers for english/history and math/science.
Wow, $30K a year for high school. My head just exploded. Pardon me while I pick up the pieces.
Anyway, back to this "What's My Rule?" thing. A clever child (which it sounds as though Steve's is) could say, "Well, my rule to get from -5 to -11 is to multiply by 2 and subtract 1. Or divide by 3 and subtract 9-and-1/3. Or add 16 and multiply by -1...."
Then again, perhaps I have spent too long reading rec.puzzles and the Online Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences, after which one realizes that you can create a rule for any finite sequence of numbers, if you try hard enough.
"$30K a year for high school."
I was curious, so I went out and got the details for our two local academies and two big name academies.
Local academies -
$36,300 Boarding
$25,300 Day
$36,550 Boarding
$24,550 Day
They probably play a game of chicken. Each school tries to outlast the other before setting their tuition. The winner is the one who holds out the longest. They get to set the higher prices.
Compare to even bigger name academies
Phillips Academy, Andover
$37,200 Boarding
$29,000 Day
Phillips Exeter Academy - Home of the "Harkness Table"
$36,500 Boarding
$28,200 Day
There are additional fees for these schools that can add up to thousands of dollars.
To be fair, most of these academies give out lots of financial aid, so don't let the prices scare you away. At least one is known to have such a large endowment that they wouldn't have to charge tuition if they didn't want to.
Most of these boarding academies limit the day students to about 10 percent because boarding is part of the whole idea. However, there is great competition for those 10 percent. My friend who teaches at one of these academies says that it's easy to tell the day students. They are the smartest.
For those who haven't heard this before, it's a goal of many parents of young kids to teach or work at a private school. Their kids get to go free. This is changing at many schools, where they now require partial payment. So the day students pack the top of the curve and the free students pack the low end. There is a spread.
"... you can create a rule for any finite sequence of numbers, if you try hard enough."
That's the problem with Everyday Math's "What's My Rule?" pages. They give you just one example of an "in" and "out" number to find the rule. There's no one right answer. Gee, where have I heard that before? I think it's supposed to give them some sort of "understanding" about functions and one-to-one relationships.
Unfortunately, you have to make the [public/private] choice without enough information.
So true. I think it takes 2-3 years AT a school to know it well enough to determine whether it gives your child the education you want them to have. And that is time that can't be returned to you or them!
Also, I caution everyone looking at private schools to not assume that they are any less constructivist or project-oriented than their local public school. They can, in fact, be even more deeply constructivist, in part because their small size lends them more to individualized learning.
When I moved my kids to private school several years ago I assumed without even asking that they would be getting the classical education that I got at a private school 40 years ago. I was very wrong.
Running from Everday Math in the public schools, I discovered a year into the private experience that EM was being used in my private school (at least in one grade--now go figure that). It was, however, being supplemented--with the "stock market game" (a year long group activity) and a cheesy magazine called "Dynamath" published by Scholastic math.
I also spent many evenings last year working on project after project with my kids...like the combined science/english project where the kids studied predator/prey relationships, then picked a predator and wrote a rap verse about it, had to make a predator costume having 3 physical adaptations, and perform their rap in costume in front of the class.
As an aside, after last year, I concluded that there was no way I could handle the parent involvement required for two middle schoolers at the same time (my younger one entered this year) so that is one reason (among many) I decided to pull out my older one and homeschool him this past year.
So--ask questions if this is not what you want when you shell out your $30K (much less expensive in my neck of the woods, thankfully).
And to be fair, lots of the kids really like this stuff. It remains to be seen what they are learning, I guess.
Also at our private school, even though it is small, they do devote massive resources to art/drama/music and those programs are fabulous. I also like private school sports, because everyone can participate. Only the best athletes have opportunities at our local public schools.
One hint when looking at schools: ask what kind of scheduling they are one. Middle schools and high schools with block scheduling (70-90 minute periods or longer; in one academic area or combining areas) are much more likely to use constructivist teaching methods, b/c blocks are needed for the group work and projects.
As an aside, after last year, I concluded that there was no way I could handle the parent involvement required for two middle schoolers at the same time (my younger one entered this year) so that is one reason (among many) I decided to pull out my older one and homeschool him this past year.
Hi Vicky, I am looking at this same choice. Are you going to continue homeschooling? I'm toying with the idea of committing to one year of homeschooling to try to bring my boys up to speed in writing and mathematics, without any distractions. Without having to make any predator costumes showing 3 physical adaptations.
If you see this comment, please reply here or with a post, describing what it has been like...
Thanks!
Becky, we had a fabulous homeschooling year. At first I fell into the trap all new homeschoolers fall into: had my little curriculum and schedule all planned out, like I was conducting mini-school for one child. We soon gave ourselves permission to focus on the important and the interesting.
The first half of the year focused on math. It was awesome. My son learned so much! The second half of the year focused on composition and I hired a tutor for that part.
I let him read and play music to his heart's content. He polished off more books (fun and serious) than I could count (an average of about one every three days). His piano and saxophone really took off with the freedom to play whenever he wanted (no more squishing it in between bookmark making and poster painting).
He had been "held back" as a kindergartner in a Waldorf school and we had tried several times to re-unite him with his agemates (by "skipping" a grade) with never any success. I used this year to accelerate him too. I simply called him an 8th grader instead of a 7th grader. It was so simple.
We found sports opportunities in our neighborhood (at the rec and community centers) and found a couple of non-school associated bands for him to play in (one concert band and one jazz band).
He got enough science and history just talking to me, I think (at least as much as he would have gotten in middle school!!).
He is a bit of an introvert and did not miss the kids (plus he had been bullied in middle school and was glad to be away from that). He is thriving.
I found a small highschool with a traditional curriculum and enrolled him in 9th grade for this coming fall.
We never intended the homeschooling to be permanent (once you get to 9th grade, it's serious business, and I wasn't sure I wanted to risk it) but almost because it was an interlude, it has been very successful.
Vicky
It's really good to hear about your experience. My husband has sabbatical leave he should take early next year, and it would be nice not to have to work with school schedules as we make our family travel plans.
It also crossed my mind that it would be the ideal time for the boys to learn another instrument, both for their own personal interest as well as a means to smoothly enter the middle school band or orchestra program in 7th grade.
The more productive experiences I realize that we can attempt if our time is our own... the easier it is for me to imagine stepping off the social merry-go-round that is public school.
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